Local Pet Caught in Leg Traps 30 Feet from USFS Road

by jhwygirl

Otis, an adorable beagle mix – looking a little on the active senior-citizen side – got caught in two traps on Lost Horse Road last week. The traps were 30 feet from the road.

Lost Horse Road is located south of Hamilton, and heads eastward into the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness.

His owner, fortunately, was able to free him, but not without panic and several hours in the cold. Considering the severely low temperatures we’ve been experiencing, Otis and his owner are tremendously lucky.

Imagine the torture of an animal – any animal – as it lay caught in one of these traps. Dying, freezing to death. I’m not an overly religious person, but I can not imagine that our Creator would be OK with his creatures treated this way in the name of sport. There was a time and a place and a necessity for trapping. But those days are long past.

Footloose Montana is a local organization that has taken up the cause of educating the public about the dangers of trapping. They are also working to seek legislative and regulatory changes – and recently saw some minor successes late this summer when the FWP Board of Commissioners made some regulatory concessions with regards to setbacks for traps and eliminating trapping from a few high public use areas.

Footloose is still looking for donations to keep a weekly ad running that lists locations of these traps so that pet-owning recreationists know where to be extra cautious. Consider a small donation, as it only takes $80 a week to keep the ad running.

Here is a map of known locations of traps. Some locations:

Gold Creek north of Milltown
The Harris Ranch hunting access site near Victor (really? These guys are so lazy that they just place traps at hunting access sites?)
Nine Mile Creek has seen numerous traps (with two black labs caught in some recently)
Bass Creek
Butler Loop area of Nine Mile

There are so many problems, as I see it, with trapping. One easily cited reason is the fact that these traps easily trap non-target species. They can be bald eagles, the elusive wolverine, or lynx. A trapper isn’t even obligated to report it. Three eagles (two bald, one golden) have been caught in illegal traps in the Clinton area in the last two years.

This past fall I came across a fawn who’s neck had been caught in a snare. The beautiful creature – still with its white spots – clearly had been lying there for more than a day. Death was very quick, but those snares are supposed to release larger animals. This one didn’t. It was set by a sheepherder (who I had passed on the way), to trap coyotes. His gun and three dogs – along with the corral he had his sheep in – apparently weren’t deterrent enough.

The snare was less than one mile from a dozen or more homes. Imagine walking your pet and hearing a yelp, and before you could get to him, he’s gone.

Be safe out there folks. Keep your loved ones close.

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  1. That’s scary. I and alot of other climbers tromp through those very woods all the time to get to various climbing/bouldering areas.

    That could have easily been a human.

    These wanna-be oregon trail types watch a little too much Jeremiah Johnson and have no problem endangering people’s safety or the safety of their pets.

    Why don’t they just dig giant elk pits with spikes at the bottom to hunt?

    Lazy cavemen.

    Don’t know about guns yet.

  2. Lizard

    One of my dogs got snagged in a toothless metal foot trap near the public access area at Tower and 3rd. I didn’t realize I had gone from public to private land, and was near the river, so it was my fault for not knowing where I was, but the experience was traumatic.

    My dog was yelping and barking in pain, biting at his paw in a horribly futile attempt to free himself. However easy a trap may be for someone familiar with the torturous devices to release, when you’re beloved canine companion is biting at you from confusion and pain, focusing on the task at hand is very difficult.

    this is one of those issues that exposes culture clash pretty dramatically. for dog lovers, it seems clear, but for trappers, this issue is more about the perception that out-of-state liberal bleeding hearts are charging in and trying to impose their views on their traditional use of natural resources.

  3. Pronghorn

    A clarification regarding nontarget species–if they are protected animals (like eagles, lynx, et al) and can’t be released unharmed, then the trapper is required to immediately notify FWP “…for assistance to determine disposition and/or collection of the animal.” Also, thanks to increasing numbers of vocal activists, this is new in the “furbearer” regulations: “To improve understanding of accidental dog captures in traps or snares, trappers must report such captures, excluding trapper’s dog, to an FWP regional office within 48 hours of identifying the capture.” Yeah, right. And of course, as you note, when traps are set illegally, “requirements” are meaningless.

    The thing to remember here, though, is that there are two classes of trapping–regulated “furbearer” trapping which occurs during a defined season (and the accidental dog capture requirement appears in the furbearer regulations only) and lesser-regulated general trapping for predators/nongame wildlife, which can occur anywhere, anytime, and does not even require a license. This means that anyone wanting to trap a coyote, weasel, red fox, etc. can go to Sportsmen’s Warehouse, buy a trap, and set it inches off of a trail if they choose to do so. This is not to say that trappers do this, but that they CAN. It’s time to get trapping off our public lands.

  4. The coyote trap that caught up the fawn that I refer to was “lesser-regulated.”

    It’s a disgrace.

  5. Big Swede

    Here on the ranch we’ve used these traps, which are more humane to domestic dogs run amuck.

    http://www.collarum.com/

  6. Duganz

    Does anyone really understand the need for trapping? And as far as the collarum is concerned, well, making something “more humane” does not make it humane. Example: lethal injection is “more humane” than the electric chair, but it’s still killing another human being.

  7. Jim Lang

    Trapping is a truly barbaric hobby.

  8. Big Game Hunter

    I’ve hunted for along time in Montana, and I think I can speak for many big game hunters when I say that trappers are among the laziest and crude and are the most barbaric sort of hunters around. They’re just a step-above poachers and spotlight/road hunters in the opinion of many hunters here in Montana.

    I say all this hoping that all of you, and all of the public in general, do not associate trappers with hunters. They are an embarrassment to the rest of us who take pride in the skill/tradition of what we do.

  9. klemz

    I’m trying to imagine the scope of the issue and how it can be addressed from my favorite approach — the vigilante approach.

    Say someone wanted to find these traps on public land and, say, cover them in piles of manure. Would that be achievable, you think?

  10. That’s not a bad idea, klemz.

    Big Game Hunter? That’s a valid point – and I’m, for one, not against hunting. They are lazy, and it interests me that you agree that trapping is lazy and sloppy.

    Frankly, trapping puts is in the class of a Jeffrey Dahmeresque prequel.

  11. I went through those woods a few times. That could me trapped. Thank for letting people know

  12. Pronghorn

    Just so you know: “It is unlawful to destroy, disturb or remove any trap, snare or trapped wildlife belonging to a trapper without permission of the owner of the trap or snare…” (MCA 87-3-507). How do you like that? Once an animal is caught in a trap, alive or dead, the animal “belongs” to the trapper. So if you come upon a trapped, suffering animal, you MUST NOT INTERVENE–please, do NOT follow a higher ethical law– because you will be tampering with Private Property. Of course, there’s a law on the books to nail YOU for disturbing traps and trapped animals, but there is NO law requiring trappers to make mandatory trap checks, just a suggestion of “once every 48 hours.” You can carry this scenario to its logical, gruesome conclusion.

  13. 1cooner

    I wonder how long it took you to go back and get your camera to film the mutt in the trap. I would put my hand in every trap I own. Put up signs to warn you ha you mean so that you can steal our gear ? The traps shown in the film are not even legal gear to run in the state. Public land is just that public for all.

  14. klemz

    At no point in your incoherent rambling did I even begin to discern a rational thought. At this point I have no option but to come to the conclusion that you are medically tar-tar, Cooner.

    Seriously, did someone create an avatar to slam on trappers? If so, that’s not even fair. If not… well, my God.

  15. B

    Looks like a staged incident to me.
    Plenty if misinformation about trapping on most of these replies.
    As far as trappers being lazy compared to hunters, nothing could be farther from the truth.
    Running a safe and effeceint trapline is a big commitment.
    Also when using the proper equipment domestics such as dogs can be released unharmed.
    Just look at Otis, looks pretty good to me.
    Trapping is a valuable tool that state game agencys use to control furbearer populations.
    The general public needs to be aware of when seasons are and plan there outdoor activities around those seasons if they wish to avoid encounters.
    Big Game Hunter, just remember once these antis stop trapping than they’ll be after hunting, so just jump right on with them and slam something you know nothing about as is obvious by your post!

    …..B…..

  16. I was going to mention, which I did in the Various & Sundry post – that a pro-trapping site was tracking this post relatively heavily…I guess they finally had to get in and defend their despicable sport.

    If public lands are for everyone, 1cooner, then what’s problem with signs? Why put these things so close to roads and trails? A trailheads? That’s not lazy?

    Public lands are for everyone, I agree.

    And what about snares? There’s barely a hope and a prayer of saving a loved pet from those…and beyond that, they’re supposed to quick-release, yet they rarely do.

  17. B

    And what about snares? There’s barely a hope and a prayer of saving a loved pet from those…and beyond that, they’re supposed to quick-release, yet they rarely do.
    Cable snares are a very safe devices for taking furbearers, most of you probably think that when an animal gets caught in a snare the tree/spring pole whips the animal in to the air, nothing could be farther from the truth!
    Snares are set in trails and the loop is set where the animal will walk through it.
    If a dog was to be caught he can be safely released.
    I did notice thats Otis’s owner stated that if Otis was in the trap for a long time with the cold temps coming in he probably would have survived.
    I couldn’t agree more.
    Thats no different than leaving your dog tied out to a chain and a doghouse on a fridged night.
    Also if your dog is out of your control to the point where you don’t know where he/she is, than he could also be run over on the road, killed by Coyotes/Wolves.
    So really what were talking about here is proper pet control and being a responsible pet owner.
    I have a German Shepard (house dog), she is never out of my site.
    I would never allow her to be out of my control.
    I care to much about her.
    But if she was ever caught in a trap , I would release her and take her home, no worse for wear.
    I make a point here in IL to never set a Coyote trap within 1/2 mile of a house that has free roaming dogs(by the way IL has a lease law)
    I still catch a couple of dogs each year.
    Zero have suffered any long term ill effects from being restrained.
    I do however believe there owners are irresponsable for letting them run at large!….B….

  18. B? You have poor reading and listening comprehension skills. Otis’ owner said that (to paraphrase) ‘with the low temperatures that we had, Otis would not have survived the night.’ We were at below zero highs for numerous days, starting towards last weekend.

    You didn’t read my post carefully – but stop on back, as I will have a picture. The non-targeted species fawn, that still had its white spots, that was caught up in the snare? It didn’t quick release, and it was choked near instantly. The sheepherder that had set it was doing it for coyotes.

    And don’t come in here and pull the blame game on out-of-control pets. Public lands are public lands. Animals can’t read signs or even color, so there is zero harm in placing some sort of signage as warning.

    I feel for your neighbors.

    IL might have a statewide leash law (although I’m kinda doubting it) – Montana does not.

  19. B

    So if otis wouldn’t have survived the night, how would he have been under his owners control?
    Like I said real pet owners that care aboutr there dogs keep them in sight, I know I do.
    You don’t have to slam me to make your point, I know what I’m talking about you don’t.
    The neighbors of mine that you feel sorry for aren’t my neighbors at all but they do live next to the Landowners that I trap on, PRIVATE LAND I might add, but these “neighbors” feel that since they live in the country there dogs can go where they want, regaurdless of who’s land it is, I still try and avoid them.
    You really don’t have a clue as to how responsable pet owners treat and care for there pets.
    Otherwise you would have responded to the part of my post on pets out of control can be ran over , attacked by wolves or coyotes.
    Seems to me that you have a one sided opinon on this subject and even if your shown the facts you opinon will not be changed.
    I know the facts, you don’t….B….

  20. I know facts. I saw the facts, lying there in the Bitterroot a few short months ago.

    I know the facts – I read and hear accounts from people as to the facts. I know people that have seen the bald and the golden eagles caught in these traps.

    You aren’t even addressing the facts – the laziness of these trappers nor the refusal to even sign public areas. It’s not their private trapping ground – it’s the public’s multi-use area.

    Oh – the area where I found the fawn killed in the snare? Illegal trapping. ILLEGAL.

  21. B

    You really don’t have a clue as to how responsable pet owners treat and care for there pets.
    Otherwise you would have responded to the part of my post on pets out of control can be ran over , attacked by wolves or coyotes.
    Seems to me that you have a one sided opinon on this subject and even if your shown the facts you opinon will not be changed.

    Why don’t you just respond to the above statements?
    As far as snaring in Montana, by a sheep herder, its open year round for Coyotes, no closed season.
    As far as a fawn being caught and killed, well that happens, it might just be the price we pay for protecting livestock.
    Remember that next time you eat a steak, lambchop or a porkchop…..B….

  22. First of all – With all those wolves and shameless law-breaking governors you have running around there in Illinois, I’m surprised you have the time to be commenting here.

    As for

    As far as snaring in Montana, by a sheep herder, its open year round for Coyotes, no closed season

    That still doesn’t mean that there aren’t situations where what he was doing was illegal.

    That sheepherder was breaking the law. I know it as fact. You know nothing about that particular situation.

    Further, given your inability to consider laws in their entirety, well, that puts you in the class of that lawbreaking trapping sheepherder.

  23. Jerry

    That looks so staged that, well, I am at a loss for words. Loved the little demo with the carrot. Better make my hands and all knives illegal. YEah, that wasn’t done for effect was it? Tell you what. I’ll put my hand in there. Won’t break any bones and yes, I have had my hand/fingers caught before. The location of the dogs paw in the trap is also quite suspect as well. Looks very high up on the leg. Maybe there needs to be some investigation of Otis’ owner on this. Does anybody think if this was staged to make a point, that Otis’ owner should be in trouble? And please, if I knew nothing about traps and my dog was in one, the last and I do mean LAST thing I would be doing would be posing for the camera.

  24. If saying it looks staged makes you men feel better, so be it. You are not being reasonable, then, because it ignores the fact that pets get caught it traps. It also implies that Otis’ owner purposefully snapped his beloved pet into those traps.

    How wharped are you?!

    Beyond that, if I were hiking on Lost Horse Road, I’d likely have a camera with me too. The view is beautiful.

  25. klemz

    I don’t want to eat the porkchop or the steak or any other slab of flesh hacked from the cornfed gassy warped crossbreed of an auroch and a mountain goat.

    I want that fawn to grow up so I can eat it.

  26. Jerry

    That is a good one. How you can say that I am not reasonable? I don’t believe we have had the pleasure of meeting. Truly, I don’t believe that I am wharped. Just saying that I have never seen a trap catch an animal that high up on the leg. I also carry a camera with me most times I am outside. But I really don’t make it a habit to carry a video camera along. Supose I might just happen to have one along if I thought my dog was going to get caught in a trap. Yep, I wake up everyday thinking about that. Hmm “Better bring the video along today just in case Otis gets in a trap”. What I was saying, which you chose to ignore, was WHY was he posing for the camera instead of getting his “beloved pet” out of the trap? Also, I would not be a bit surprised if the trap was “doctored” a bit, for this “bit”. Like having a spring removed or cut. I am saying this because I have seen it all before. Putting a cute pet in a trap sure does get a lot of ink and air time. Helps to push the true agenda.

  27. Most digital cameras – hell, even cell phones – do video.

    You think if I check traps for actual targeted animals and photographed them, it’d be better? It wouldn’t hurt your cause?

  28. Jerry

    Forgot to add. Yes pets do get caught in traps. Pets also get hit by cars. So do we stop people from driving because they might hit somebody’s pet? Of course not. But please answer me this: Do pet owners have any onus in all of this? Or do they get to just let their pets run wherever, whenever they want? Carte blanche you could say. Ah public land, my land… I was setting traps a few weeks ago on public land. I was at my truck when I saw a man drive by on the access road with a dog next to him. I jumped in my truck, found him and told him that I was trapping. He was very nice about the whole thing. No hard words, no dirty looks. We chatted for a few minutes and then went on about our days. Did I have to do that? No I did not. Matter of fact, the forest ranger for that area, had given me his card prior to trapping season and told me to call him with any problems. I am a great person because I did that? No, just being a nice person, if you can believe that.

  29. Do you have a problem with signing an area that has traps?

    That’s kinda one of the main things a lot of folk around here are looking for – so that trappers can do their sport and recreationists and their pets can recreate.

    That won’t change my feelings that the sport is vile, but it might make me think better of its participants.

  30. Jerry

    Yes, cells do take video, but not like that!! Grasping at straws it may seem. Also, you seem to pick one aspect and ignore the rest.. Maybe the facts will go aways if you ignore them. Ignored the fact that anti trappers fake video all the time. Doctor videos. What about the gentleman using a carrot for a demo? Be real. A butter knife can cut a carrot! Maybe you may want to find out WHY HE WAS POSING WITH HIS BELOVED OTIS INSTEAD OF GETTING HIM OUT OF THE TRAP! Is that not a valid question? If you like, we can take this one question at a time.

  31. B

    Further, given your inability to consider laws in their entirety, well, that puts you in the class of that lawbreaking trapping sheepherder.

    You have shown on here how you avoid the issues and just want to stir the pot, This is the last post that this lawabiding trapper will be making on this witch hunt subject.
    You have avoided the replies to your posts and that has shown where you really stand on these subjects….B…

  32. Jerry

    Yes I do, with posting a sign that is. What about keeping your pet on a leash? Is it really that hard to do? Keep your pets under your control. I do. I have two beagles. They hunt rabbits and snowshoe hares. Part of the rules are that they are to be in my control. If one of them gets into a trap, is it the trappers fault? No. Is it the dogs fault? No, they are just being dogs. Am I going to go nuts over the fact that they got caught? No. It happens. Life happens. And in case you have not figured it out yet, you can’t control it. Bad things happen and so do good things. Keep you side of the street clean and let me worry about mine.

  33. My digital camera takes excellent video, along with sound.

    The video was made after the fact. Not in the woods. Otis’ owner took a photo. That doesn’t seem far fetched or even sadistic.

    If you listened to the video, you know that Otis’ owner tried, but really didn’t know how to release the trap.

    You want to focus on what you want to try and discredit as a staged video and ignore the fact that trapping (all kinds of trapping using all kinds of traps) catch up pets and non-targeted and sometimes endangered species. And that it is barbaric.

    And you want to blame this particular situation on the owner and his pet, and not accept any blame on the part of the trapper. Talk about one-sided.

    Again – why not sign an area? Why not accept reasonable setbacks from trails and roads and trailheads?

  34. Jerry

    What would you do if you saw a sign that a trap was in an area? My guess is that you would at the very least, you would set it off. In which case, you would be breaking the law. So beause of you beliefs, you would feel justified and right in what you did. Maybe you would take that trap because what you belive to be a “barbaric” practice. Pardon me for asking was and not not knowing, but was the trap(s) set illegaly? If not, then the trapper was not at fault. If they where, then yes. Let me ask this: say I have a trap set behind my house (which I do right now) and somebody’s dog gets caught in it, on my property. Who is at fault there? I don’t think it would be me.

  35. Jerry

    Okay, several hours to get Otis out. Again, someone was there taking a picture instead of helping to get the “beloved” Otis out.

  36. Jerry

    Again, “several hours in the cold”. Someone was taking a picture instead of helping to get the “beloved” Otis out. Why weren’t they helping? Another thing, Otis looks pretty calm there to me.

  37. Jerry

    “You want to focus on what you want to try and discredit as a staged video and ignore the fact that trapping (all kinds of trapping using all kinds of traps) catch up pets and non-targeted and sometimes endangered species. And that it is barbaric.”
    So if this was staged then it is okay, because you believe trapping to be “barbaric”? So then any means are okay to get to the desired goal? Please, what is your definiton of a “non-targeted” catch? Would a coyote in a fox set be a non-target? Not to me. A mink in a muskrat set? Well, it was set for a muskrat.. So I guess that would be a non-target.

  38. Now you are making an assumption that I am a lawbreaker.

    First, the two of you claim it as a staged event, and now I’m a lawbreaker. All hopes of a civil thoughtful conversation are lost here now. Consider this my last comment.

    You are also failing to take the whole conversation into consideration . There is no statewide law that requires pets to be leashed. If my dog is under my voice control, I dare say I’m being responsible.

    Obviously, you have a problem with signing – the public lands are yours and the rest of us need to work around you – and you have no intention of recognizing anything or anyone else’s rights.

  39. i believe that old time trappers with ethics like bud moore knew the land and the use patterns well enough to avoid this conflict. they also would be willing to snowshoe to the most remote areas (where the target animals were more numerous)

    trapping these days seems to be practiced by newcomers who are unwilling to put out the physical exertion necessary to get far enough away from recreational users and their pets to avoid trapping pets.

    either the montana legislature or the fish and wildlife dept needs to look into this before trapping is so completely hated that it is banned and those who support trapping need to take a reality pill and come to grips with patrolling themselves very strictly to avoid this from happening again or this sport will be extinct, which would be ok with me.

    so just keep arguing and being stubborn instead of doing your level best to show us that you are serious about no more pet deaths and mutilation, jerry. you are doing yourself no favors here with the obstructionist blame it on the public attitude here. the public is who makes the rules in america- so i would advise you and the entire trapping lobby to straighten up and fly right concerning pet danger or lose the right to trap. your choice.

  40. Jerry

    I asked several question, which you have not answered at all. I am not assuming anything, I asked a question based on your comments. Once again you chose not to answer. I have NEVER said the public lands are mine. Point out to me where I said that. I know you will not answer that, because I never did. You again did not answer the question I posed that who is wrong if a dog gets caught in a trap on my land. No answer to what you consider a non-target catch. No answer to why Otis’ owner was posing for a picture. No answer to if the trap was set legally. No answer to if Otis’ owner staged the event, should he be in trouble. No answer to what you would do if you saw a “sign” saying “TRAP SET HERE”. Awful lot of no answers. I guess when asked a question that you don’t want to answer, you say this “Consider this my last comment.”
    Problembear, I am NOT blaming the public. I am asking a question. I recoginize that public lands are for EVERYONE. What I am saying is you just can’t blame a trapper or a pet owner. People need to educate themselves. Both trappers and others. I know that one state forest I trap in (most do have this as well), there is a main board that has a list of rules and what activities that are permited. How many non-hunters/trapper do you think read that? I can tell you not many. I have talked to many people who hike and walk dogs there and NONE of them have read it. It says right there that trapping is permited and that it is a multi use area. Trappers keep a low profile. Not too many folks know we are there. Trap sets do not stick out like a sore thumb. I would take to mean from your comment “so i would advise you and the entire trapping lobby to straighten up and fly right concerning pet danger or lose the right to trap. your choice.”, that keeping pets out of traps is entirely the onus of trappers. No more pets deaths? Mutilation? So a trap that holds a coyote, fox, raccoon, with no damage will cause mutilation to a pet?

  41. it’s just political reality jerry- there are what? 200 trappers in the entire state of montana? and you think that your aggressive questions will convince 300,000 voters of the rightness of your cause? try empathy and some constructive discussion instead of fireing pre-loaded accusatory questions at us and you might do yourself some good here. all you are doing is here is fomenting anger.

    by the way- are you a lawyer jerry? ecause one of the first things they teach you in law school is to aggressively question adversaries to keep them off balance and unable to process their arguments. nice try.

    one of my favorite lines i use when some stubborn argumentative person peppers me with questions instead of discussing a problem calmly is stolen from NYPD Blue
    “when a mule brays at me i don’t feel any particular need to bray back.”

  42. Jim Lang

    What is the point of engaging with this troll?

    None that I can see.

  43. Pronghorn

    Staged or not staged? That, really, is not the question. The larger, implicit question is this: With Montana’s population closing in on one million, and with a mere 4000 of those people trapping, why should our public lands be held hostage to concealed weapons of injury and death? So what if Otis was one of the lucky ones? Ask Cupcake’s humans how lucky THEY feel. That border collie’s human watched his dog thrash and die in a Conibear set for beaver in Rock Creek. Just another carefree outing on our public lands!

    Leash laws exist where leash laws are posted, and those places are the exception. Speaking of laws, why is there no mandatory trap check law? Here’s why: Trappers don’t want one, and trappers run the show at FWP. So don’t rely on FWP for enlightenment–the fox is guarding the henhouse. Why are trappers not required to take any kind of trapper education course? Why do trappers “keep a low profile”? I think it’s because they KNOW that their practice (please, let’s not call it a sport) is held in contempt and with disgust and revulsion, and why it that? BECAUSE IT MAKES ANIMALS SUFFER. Trappers never address the suffering issue (other than to deny it) because they can’t.

    Maybe the carrot WAS a cheesy example. I’ve seen the same thing with a broomstick, and the resulting dents were flesh-ripping, bone-cracking deep. Let’s remember that for many, trapping isn’t JUST about domestic dogs and our right to access our public land. It’s about public wildlife, supposedly “owned” by all of us, suffering and dying hideous deaths in archaic devices for…what… COMMERCIAL purposes, and on occasion, for trophies.

    They will talk a great line about management of populations, but when’s the last time YOU saw a pine marten, fisher, or wolverine? When was YOUR last bobcat or otter sighting? Are we really overrun with these animals to the point where we have to figure out the maximum number we can kill for money (they call it harvest, or take) and leave just enough? If that’s the case, why does FWP still allow the trapping of wolverine and fishers? I have plenty of questions of my own.

  44. Jim Lang

    I saw a wolverine 4 years ago, a couple miles up the creek from my house. Haven’t seen a pine marten since I lived in Red Lodge, decades ago. Saw some otters this spring while kayaking the Blackfoot. Never saw a fisher or a bobcat in the wild. No, we clearly are not overrun with these populations.

  45. klemz

    If somebody — Michelle perhaps — tried to push an outright ban of trapping on public land through the legislature, dare I say it would pass right now. I see massive mainstream appeal as long as organizers successfully distance it from the wolf issue, which it should be separate from anyway.

    You can’t expect FWP to regulate out that which it expects to regulate (why do you think the NRC is so permissive?).

  46. Jerry

    Okay, one at a time. Problembear: Not a lawyer. I work for a living. But by saying that you thoght I might be must mean that I am asking some good questions. What is the first thing a person does when they can’t back up their statement? Don’t answer a follow up and avoid the question. Everybody does it. I do it. You do it. Nobody wants to admit that they don’t know an answer to a question. Even more so when they have stated something as a fact. My questions are not “pre-loaded” or “accusatory”. I would ask the same thing if we were having a cup of coffee and talking about it. My voice would not go up. I don’t do that. Am I a “stubborn argumentative person” because I am making you think and back up your statements? The questions I posed a not hard to answer.

    Jim Lang… “What is the point of engaging with this troll?”. Nice. Again, I don’t recall us meeting so you can make that assumption. Hate that word “assume” or any form of it. I think you know why. So resort to name calling.. Good one.

    Pronghorn… “Staged or not staged? That, really, is not the question.” Why? If it is staged, then that is okay in your eyes because you don’t like trapping?
    “Maybe the carrot WAS a cheesy example. I’ve seen the same thing with a broomstick, and the resulting dents were flesh-ripping, bone-cracking deep.” Okay common ground on that one. But really, a broomstick? If that was the case, none of my fingers would be working. And how on earth can a bromstick have “the resulting dents were flesh-ripping, bone-cracking deep.” Words of EMOTION not fact. A broomstick cannot have “flesh-ripping bone-cracking” ANYTHING! Also “but when’s the last time YOU saw a pine marten, fisher, or wolverine? When was YOUR last bobcat or otter sighting?”. All very recently with the exception of a wolverine.

    Lots of emotion. I understand that. You don’t like trapping. Fine. That is your choice. I don’t impose my will on anyone. Ever wonder why trapping is not stopped because of wildlife populations? It is always on emotion and not facts.

  47. Pronghorn

    I see that the use of analogy or metaphor is lost on some…OK, had the significant dents made on the broomstick been made on a living animal’s leg, the flesh would have ripped, the bone would have cracked. Sorry I wasn’t more literal. Another favorite ploy of trappers is to use the “emotional” argument as a disqualifier. There is nothing emotional about the science on wolverine effective population in Montana (the numbers needed for a viable population). Sorry, dude, the jury is in on this one, and the numbers don’t support trapping. Fisher numbers are an unknown, but suspected to be equally as low. The ludicrous quota (7) alone suggests THAT. Data is lacking.

    “I don’t impose my will on anyone.” You impose your will on every single animal you maim or whose life you forceably take from them with a hidden, baited instrument of suffering and death.

    And now, I’m going to get on with my life.

  48. Jerry

    “OK, had the significant dents made on the broomstick been made on a living animal’s leg, the flesh would have ripped, the bone would have cracked.” Please explain why I have not seen that. Why are my fingers not craked and maimed beyond use?
    ““I don’t impose my will on anyone.” You impose your will on every single animal you maim or whose life you forceably take from them with a hidden, baited instrument of suffering and death.” See, more emotionally charged words. Maybe animals and people are the same to you. Not to me. Sorry if that is straight forward and honest, but it is the truth. A fact if you will.
    “Another favorite ploy of trappers is to use the “emotional” argument as a disqualifier.” Well, where am I (we) wrong? See you did it above. What facts do you have to stop lawful trapping of an animal population? Now I don’t know this, but do you have a degree in Wildlife Biology/Management? If so, then you have a qualified opinion. I base what I know on what I have seen and what I know. Not on what I take to be facts because some website or somebody told me.
    “And now, I’m going to get on with my life.” I hope you have a truly blessed life. Not being a wise guy. I mean that. We have a differing view on a topic, that is all. May God bless you and yours.

  49. Jim Lang

    Some people get their kicks from torturing innocent animals – I accept that as part of human nature, but I don’t feel an obligation to pretend to respect these sick individuals.

  50. six

    That guy NEEDS to be jailed for placing that trap on that dog !! Thats right he placed the trap on the dog !! Anyone that knows anything about trapping can plainly see, that trap is brand spanking new and has never been used. No dye on the trap for cammo, at the very least there would be rust on the trap, so please take this guys claim and file it under staged incidents.

    For all you fence sitters out there, this is a prime example of how wacko animal rights people really care about animals. They don’t, as you can see for yourself right in that video. Please take my word for it, that is a brand new trap that has never been set to catch a wild animal. The trap WAS PLACED ON THE DOG BY HIS OWNER

  51. six – the 3 eagles that have been caught in conibear traps over the last two years in Clinton were caught by traps that were untagged, untethered, and untreated.

    The Einstein trappers around here have a bad name, in part, for shit like that.

    You are apparently a member of the same group of Einstein trappers, the ones refusing to recognize the issue here regarding pets being caught in traps.

    You can assume I’m a lawbreaker who would steal your traps, you can assume Otis’ owner staged the picture, and I will assume you are one of the lawbreaking trappers that pulls shit like that I’ve seen and heard of occurring on public lands.

  52. six

    Oh, and I would also like to say thanks to the the guy. Please take note of the close up shots what have the dogs leg in the trap. There is absolutly NO evidence of blood OR broken skin, thus proving that traps are NOT the curel torture devices people calim they are.

  53. Yeah. It’s even less cruel because you oh-so-ethical trappers walk up to your “catch” and put a bullet into ‘em.

    Do you close your eyes, or do you have a little laugh while you’re pulling the trigger ?

  54. Jerry

    Six, you are going to confuse them with facts. Like Six said, correctly, that is staged. The more I look at it, the more convinced I am. Another thing, look how high up on the leg that trap is. Anybody who knows ANYTHING about trapping will tell you, even an anti trapper if you press them, a trap DOES NOT catch that high up on an animal. Across the pad or high on the pad (ok the paw). That trap looks to be up by what we would call our elbow. See what happens with facts that are presented? Ignored and the name calling ensues. Oh yeah and some profanity. Jhwygirl, I answered your question aboout posting signs. I never said you WOULD steal traps I said “Maybe you would take that trap because what you belive to be a “barbaric” practice.” I did say I think you would at least set off the trap based on what you have written. Am I wrong? You still have answered zero of the questions I posed. A recap if you will: “Please, what is your definiton of a “non-targeted” catch? Would a coyote in a fox set be a non-target?”
    “You again did not answer the question I posed that who is wrong if a dog gets caught in a trap on my land. No answer to why Otis’ owner was posing for a picture. No answer to if the trap was set legally. No answer to if Otis’ owner staged the event, should he be in trouble.”

    “I have NEVER said the public lands are mine. Point out to me where I said that. I know you will not answer that, because I never did.” No response to that either.

  55. Jerry

    More emotionally charged words. Yes animals are shot it traps. Fact. Not emotion. Somebody made a point that the “trapped” dog showed no signs of what you say traps do on a regular basis. How come no comment on that? Not expecting an answer to that.

  56. bray away jerry and six. with each incomprehensibly absurd comment you further seal the fate of your beloved “sport” and galvanize political enemies who want to ban trapping. please keep it up.

  57. Dan Hudzik

    I read this article and watched the video. I am wondering if these people love their pets, why don’t they have a leash on them when they are walking with them? Do they care about other people in the area that might be afraid of dogs? Do they care that there are wild animals in the area that can and will whip their dogs causing possible death to the beloved pets? I’m not a trapper and have never trapped an animal but if I were and a dog got caught in one of my traps I wouldn’t care if I was doing every thing lawfully. If the dog gets trapped then I would think it is the irresponsible pet owners fault for not keeping track of their animals. I am a dog lover, I rescued 2 dogs and house sit for others. Personally I can’t blame the guy that set the trap trying to catch legal animals. I blame the pet owners for their irresponsible actions. All they had to do is put their dog on a leash when they walk it and that could never happen. I live in a VERY rural area and my dogs none of them EVER have been caught in a trap, but then again I care about my pets and don’t let them run aimlessly. I personally think this guy put on a great show for the camera and that’s about it. He is rubbing the dog constantly in the video as if he is nervous trying to speak while on camera. Like I said, I’m not a trapper, never have trapped, know nothing about trapping but even so I can understand what some of the trappers are saying about how high the trap is on the dog in the picture. That doesn’t even look possible if you think in terms of mechanics. As far as hunters or people that consider their self as hunters and they trash trappers? That doesn’t make a bit of sense and you make hunters look great? I am a wildlife enthusiast and read tons of articles, books and write ups on hunting, trapping, guns, bows, laws, activist groups for and against everything. Any hunter that calls a trapper lazy but brags about taking and harvesting animals hundreds of yards away, well I guess that isn’t lazy at all. I sure hope the hunter or hunters that trash trappers apologize because I say if you guys do this then any anti anything group against any of you wins because you argue amongst yourselves. Something for you to think about. I have read articles on what trappers have to go through just to figure out how to get one animal. Too much work for me. Any way my final thought for all of you to think about is that leashes keep my pets safe and in control. Sincerely, beloved dog lover in Illinois

  58. goof houlihan

    I’m not a trapper. I have a good friend who is a trapper. He has trapped many a beaver, even within the City. I’m sure there were many, many pets around, but there were also beaver chewing the cottonwoods down and damming the creeks into people’s basements.

    I’ve been with him many times to check the traps and tear out beaver dams and also set and check traps for other animals as well. It’s not a sport, and it’s not a living, but it is a respectable avocation.

    I don’t let my dog out of my sight on the trails. Looking after my dog is my responsibility. I owe that responsibility to my pet, and to the users of the trails with little kids, and who run, and bike and ski. The many dog owners who cover the trails with dogshit and don’t pick it up, and whose dogs bite children and runners are irresponsible towards others. Most dog bites on children, for example, occur on the head, face, or neck.

    And for the pets themselves, it will only take a second for the unleashed and out of control dog to run out into the path of a bike, or snowmobile, or car or truck, with terrible consequences. Once you’ve seen it happen, you’ll think differently about letting pets run uncontrolled.

  59. dan- since you claim you are not a trapper but read up on it maybe you could shed some light on just what earthly purpose furtrapping serves us in the 21st century? i can’t for the life of me see any benefit that trained wildlife managers using the best trained professionals couldn’t handle. seems like it would be a lot better than allowing untrained amateurs loose in our woods. god knows i am no animal rights person but there is something pretty unsettling about unregulated and untrained fess parker wannabe’s running amuck out there injuring people’s pets.

    telling people to leash their dogs in public access lands in montana is not realistic dan. there are a lot more dog lovers in this country than trappers so i wouldn’t go there anymore unless you really want to get hate mail.

    so what do you think the benefits of trapping are? and should untrained unregulated amateurs be allowed to do it?

  60. klemz

    “but there were also beaver chewing the cottonwoods down and damming the creeks into people’s basements.”

    That’s freaking awesome. Where can I get an army of beaver?

  61. Lizard

    let ‘em kill and torture animals, whatever. humans are killed and tortured every day as part of our foreign policy, and a lot of people seem willing to go along with those inhumane policies, so why not let your average sadist set his sad little traps?

    this is a brutal world. maybe we don’t deserve to go on carefree hikes on public lands with our dogs anymore.

  62. goof houlihan

    What a straight line!

  63. klemz

    But, in all seriousness…

    Your sport dies with my generation — I’d bet a leprechaun’s stash on it. There’s simply not enough room any more for this kind of selfishness.

  64. Lizard

    Goof, I’m not sure if that was meant for me, and if you’re mocking me or not, but at this point who really cares, right? I’ve watched this debate go back and forth in the opinion section, and it never changes.

    My dog got snatched in a trap, and it sucked. My dog has also killed a doe, drowned her in the river. dogs will be dogs, rednecks will be rednecks, and Americans will be Americans, getting all worked up over local carnage while the international carnage continues.

    so sorry if I think the understandable outrage expressed here from the “dog lovers” pales in comparison to what we, as taxpaying citizens, tolerate when it comes to killing foreigners in far away lands.

  65. Jerry

    Problembear. Not braying, but I see you have found something you like to repeat. So here is one from the good ole day of TV you may be able to get “Just the facts maam/sir”. I see the fact that I am NOT a lawyer has nt given you the desire to actually answer a question. My purpose for these questions is to see where you are coming from. What background you have in trapping or true knowledge of it you have. Facts not emotion. Also, if somebody who happens to read this that does have an open mind, I would like them to think for themselves and to read other opinions on this subject. There has not been any answer here to disprove the claim that the pictures of the “trapped” dog are staged. I have yet to see where any trapper has said public lands are for their use only. No facts that traps do what has been alledged here. Only emotional statements and carefully “pre-loaded” words. To answer a question you have not asked me: I do take measures to avoid areas that MIGHT cause a pets to be caught. I notice nobody has asked me how many I have caught this year. So, I will answer. ZERO! I know some here would like people to think that thousands of pets are ending up in traps each day, but it simply is not true. How come nobody has answered why there is no damage to the dog’s leg. Or the position of the trap on the leg. If you don’t know the answer, just say so. Say you don’t like trapping, that’s fine. But like has been stated, the picture shows no sign of damage to the dog. If I remember correctly, wasn’t the dog “trapped” for several hours? That should have been plaenty of time the trap to do any damage. And don’t say it is because Otis’ owner was there keeping him calm. That doesn’t fly.

  66. goof houlihan

    No, lizard, your comment got in while I was responding to klemz.

    thanks for your forthrightness in talking about your dog.

  67. goof houlihan

    “If somebody — Michelle perhaps — tried to push an outright ban of trapping on public land through the legislature, dare I say it would pass right now” (posted by klemz)

    Not a chance a ban on trapping passes the legislature. It shows how out of touch with Montana you are that you would even make that claim.

  68. klemz

    “Not a chance a ban on trapping passes the legislature. It shows how out of touch with Montana you are that you would even make that claim.”

    Just on public land. Plus, I admit that I’ve never been in touch with a good half of this state. I doubt I care to be, honestly.

  69. jerry- like goof, i have known trappers who work with care and years of experience at it and none of them have ever had an eagle or a pet caught or injured. my original comment alluded to bud moore whom one of my friends learned the craft from. the other trapper i knew is long gone – bill neff in oregon coast range – well known and used by fish and wildlife to manage animals for over 50 years. i am troubled by the newbies who don’t know a damn thing about what they are doing out there. they are the ones causing the problems for you trappers.

    i am pretty ambivalent about trapping if it doesn’t kill pets but i lean toward either regulating furtrapping with a keen eye toward safety of the public or banning it if you guys can’t figure out some way to corrall the young turks out there playing mountain man and setting traps within a stone’s throw of roads and trails because they are too lazy to set a line right.

    your questions about the photos are absurd and deserve no answer from me. like i said to you if trappers don’t take responsibility for the bad behavior of the bad ones out there and begin to clean it up, the people of the state of montana will. and you may not like the result. makes no difference to me one way or the other. but it you care about trapping you and the others who do care better clean up the act of some very stupid dudes out there.

  70. Dan Hudzik

    “dan- since you claim you are not a trapper but read up on it maybe you could shed some light on just what earthly purpose furtrapping serves us in the 21st century?”

    problembear, I am not a trapper. I will try to answer the best I can. I think a trapper could best answer you or your local state biologist and scientist. If you read the state wildlife newspapers or other wildlife articles you will see that the need for trapping that is discussed most often is because of landscape and habitat that is ruined by animals considered pest. Also biologist and scientist along with wildlife officers say that hunting and trapping are a necessity so diseases are not spread rapidly through them. Also a few post above mention not seeing certain animals. That doesn’t mean that the animals are not there and it doesn’t mean that the numbers are down either. If you read about wildlife and their characteristics most animals will try to avoid humans as much as possible. Of course there are the cougars, bears and sometimes the coyotes and foxes that attack people and their pets. That happens all over though. Sometimes someone’s child becomes prey to these critters. Thats the only thing that I can really tell you about your question.

    problembear your quote is “telling people to leash their dogs in public access lands in montana is not realistic dan. there are a lot more dog lovers in this country than trappers so i wouldn’t go there anymore unless you really want to get hate mail.”

    Problembear I hope you are not implying or threatening me with hate mail? This is an open discussion and you may not like the fact that dogs belong on leashes but that is EXACTLY where they belong. Your comment about being unrealistic about keeping the animals on a leash, well it is only unrealistic if you choose not to do it. I suppose that it is just as unrealistic as legislature banning trapping. I do not believe that dogs should be able to wander away from their owners unless connected by a leash. My dogs don’t and I don’t expect anyone else to let theirs do it either. I have seen to many dogs chase wild animals. I have seen dogs chase deer with their owners behind them hollering at them to stop but the dogs see the deer running and they think it is a game until the deer crosses the road and gets hit by a truck. Now that’s senseless. I would rather a hunter take that animal than someone’s car or a semi truck. At least the hunter will do something with the animal(s) and they won’t lay on the side of the road and rot until the state send out the roadkill truck to pick them up. It doesn’t matter what state you are in or where you live. Dogs are pets and even the best trained animals can snap and become uncontrollable. I was attacked by a very well trained dog. I knew this dog from the time he was a puppy. One day he just lost his mind and he attacked. I just got done petting him and turned around to walk away. When I turned away he grabbed my hand and shook it vigorously until I was able to knock him off. If I was smaller at the time there is no doubt that he would have wounded me badly or even killed me. No one will ever know what the dog was thinking but I can assure you all I was thinking about was me. Have you ever been walking through a park and had a Mastiff that weighs 140 pounds come up to you a foot away and start barking at you and you can feel his breath on your back every time he barks? I have. It’s not pleasant especially when the owner of the dog tells you not to move? What gives his dog more right than me to be in the PUBLIC park? I have been at work and had a guy come across the tracks in an open field by us and while we were working his dogs pinned us down, we had to jump up on the railroad cars. He had 5 dogs and the leashes were in his hand but he let them all loose. He had 1 pitbull, 2 German Shepherds, 1 husky and 1 black lab. None of those dogs are small and they should have been on their leashes. He was a irresponsible pet owner and let them off the leashes to run loose while people were working in the area. Even through all of this I still love dogs, it’s some of the owners I don’t like. This is why we should be grateful to live in this GREAT country, we are allowed to voice our opinions even though they may be different. Name calling, threats and cursing on a open forum are uncalled for and show ignorance. Dan

  71. Jerry

    Problembear “your questions about the photos are absurd and deserve no answer from me.”. Okay, don’t have an answer I take it. What about any of the others I posed?

    “like i said to you if trappers don’t take responsibility for the bad behavior of the bad ones out there and begin to clean it up, the people of the state of montana will. and you may not like the result.” Bad people are everywhere. People drive drunk. So do we stop everyone from driving? I seem to remember that adult beverages where banned at some point in our history. That worked well.

    What I think you are missing that the examples of pets in traps is rare, as a percentage, of the animals caught in a trap. Anti trapper like to make it seem like we are wading throught miles of traps with pets in them to get a “target” catch. Are you saying Problembear, that trappers bear the full brunt of responsibility in keeping pets out of traps? Let me advise you of the last dog I caught. 5 miles from the nearest house. Collar on. No ID tag. Caught right across the pad. No damage to the foot. I let the dog out of the trap and he took off out of there. Not on 3 legs, but all 4. No limp or anything. I take it that set that caught that dog was my fault? Had nothing to do with the fact that he was running loose. Just so you know it wasn’t a big dog either. I seem to remember it was about the size of Otis. The only difference was his “owner” did not put him in the trap.

  72. I can’t believe I’ve missed out on all this fun until now!

    What I think you are missing that the examples of pets in traps is rare, as a percentage, of the animals caught in a trap.

    So are the number of people killed by drunk drivers, in view of the number of people who are caught driving drunk. Bet my percentage of insignificance beats the crap out of yours any day. So, by your argument, people should be allowed to drive drunk, right?

    Don’t use bullshit and anecdote, son. It doesn’t help your cause.

  73. And just for the record, I believe that trapping has a point and many purposes, just like hunting. But hunting is vastly better regulated. You have to have a license to hunt, and you have to be able to declare anything you kill. Anything. You even shoot a frickin’ coyote (no license required) and you have to be able to declare when and where you shot it. Little recognized fact: that goes for gophers and hares, too. You have to be able to declare. Trappers don’t. As jhwygirl has pointed out multiple times, that’s part of the problem.

  74. dan- don’t be so melodramatic- by hate mail i mean more comments on this from dog lovers. jeez you guys are sensitive for outdoor types. thanks for your answers and i hope i helped with my answers. i think if we dialogue instead of hurl barbs at each other more can be accomplished. thanks for all the info and we shall see what happens in the state legislature.

    Jerry- the lowest common denominator is a problem in all outdoor activities whether it is boating, hunting, fishing -or snowmobiles and four wheelers… the difference between furtrappers and those other activities to me is that there seems to be no willingness from you to even discuss trying to educate fellow trappers to use safe techniques. the other sports all seem to be able to at least put a nice PR face on things as trying to keep their activities safe for the public by providing education and distributing leaflets etc.

    maybe it is about trying to look more professional instead of being intransigent and attacking people about photographs etc. my point is if you care about furtrapping then someone in your ranks should show concern for people’s pets rather than level blame at them. that is just not smart politics. i still maintain that there are too many ignorant yahoos running around setting traps who have no business endangering our pets just to indulge their fess parker fantasies. i have no problem with trained experienced trappers – just the idiots. and jerry if you insist on defending the idiots then go ahead but you are not doing yourself any favors by pissing off pet owners here.

  75. Dan Hudzik

    Didn’t mean to upset you there problembear. I’m not hurling barbs I posted a positive piece from both sides, at least I thought that’s what I have done. Remember Bob Barker always said if you care about your pets have them spayed or neutered, well I say keep them on a leash close to you where they belong. After all I feel better when my dogs are next to me. Everyone could post opinions all day but no one is going to change the minds of anyone. Just like trying to convince a democrat to vote republican and trying to make a republican vote for a democrat, it’s not going to happen. That’s why we live in AMERICA and have the freedom, rights and choices we have.
    Any way I hope you ALL have a Merry Christmas. Dan

  76. very merry christmas from montana to you and yours also, dan. don’t ever worry about upsetting me- i do a pretty good job of upsetting myself almost daily.

  77. Jerry

    Problembear… Show me where I placed the blame on pet owners. I asked, I believe, if it entirely a trappers fault if a dog (pet) gets caught. You have not answered that. A lot of this is pure emotion. I understand that a pet in a trap can be a very scary thing for a pets owner. I GET THAT! Dan made many good points, from a non trappers view. A question: What if a dog is running loose, with it’s owner near, and a wild animal maims it? Who’s fault is that? That is the point I am making. I will accecpt any thing I do as my fault, if I am wrong. And no, you don’t have to beat me over the head with a 2 x 4 to get me to see it! I am not try to p/o pet owners or anyone else. Just provide another side to what is all to often a one sided story. I am not defending “idiots”. If someone is wrong, they are wrong. And yes, I still believe that photo is staged and you still ignored that, again. And I also wish you a Merry Christmas.

    Wulfgar. You are not my father, so please do not refer to me as “son”. There is only one man on earth that is my father, and that is not you! And nice language. “So are the number of people killed by drunk drivers, in view of the number of people who are caught driving drunk. Bet my percentage of insignificance beats the crap out of yours any day. So, by your argument, people should be allowed to drive drunk, right?” Oh yeah, that is what I meant. Saw right through me.
    “Bet my percentage of insignificance beats the crap out of yours any day.” Okay, back it up. I stated how many pets got in my traps this year. Do some math. Take the reported fur harvest (or take or kill if you like), which you can get from any DNR website, and then the number of pets caught in traps that are reported. Get the percentage. Yes, I get this is reported. But it is easy to see that most people will let everyone and their brother know if a pet is caught. Go back and read. I have asked many questions of others and stated many facts. And you also have a Merry and Blessed Christmas.

  78. More poor reading comprehension skills. Is that common with all of you trappers?

  79. Craig

    Most of you people here running off your mouths have no clue as to what you are talking about. You are quick to paint all trappers with the same broad brush. Because one idiot does something rediculous, don’t think that all are like that. Yes I trap. I do it per the law and by necessity. In my area we are over run by coyotes and beavers. I lost my best friend “Chip” to a Coyote just last year. People take pictures of the prowing around the school here. Anyway, I do trap. I use rubber padded or laminated foot hold traps. Just in case I catch someones pet. These will not cut a pet’s foot. However, I look at it like this. We have leash laws here. Keep your pet in your yard and off my farm, you won’t have any worries. As for the Beavers, they dam up the drainage ditches which cause my crops to flood. They also cut down the trees (big ones) or they eat the bark off all the way around which kills the tree.
    So don’t paint us all with the same broad brush. I am sure a lot of you have pets; dogs, cats, etc. I see on the news all the time that people abuse these animals. However, I don’t think all people are bad owners. As far as lazy. That is a joke. My day starts at 4am when I get up and check my trap line. I then shower and go to work by 6 am. I get off at 5 and tend the farm. In the 15 years I have been trapping. I have never caught an eagle, hawk, owl, or deer. I have caught ferrel dogs and on one occasion caught a black lab that had escaped his owners pen. I let him out and gave him a ride home in the cab of my truck.

    Another obvious thing that no one talked about is that if you saw a fawn in a trap with spots, the person that put the snare there was a poacher not a trapper. Deer are born in May or spring. Trapping season is long out by then.

  80. You aren’t from Montana. You don’t know what has happened here, and you are in denial.

    Whatever.

  81. klemz

    “In my area we are over run by coyotes and beavers. I lost my best friend “Chip” to a Coyote just last year.”

    I lost a friend named Chip to a cougar. Suffice it to say, I did not attend the wedding.

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