anybody else smell hypocrites???
by problembear
is that a powerful whiff of phony coming off of MT rep denny rehberg lately?
the blatant in your face hypocrisy of denny rehberg helping himself to government provided health insurance while opposing the choice of government provided health insurance for the rest of us is just too pungent an odor to ignore.
c’mon denny ferrkrissakes at least try to make it look like you care what the voters think of you……
last year you sued billings fire fighters for putting out a fire on your inherited suburban ranch…..
this year you are a hypocrite because you signed up to use govt provided health care and claim to be against govt provided health.
denny- if you are serious about being against govt provided health care then quit taking your govt provided health care. or you are a hypocrite.
right wing legislators lapping up government provided health insurance while going out of your way to deny the same choice for the rest of us doesn’t improve the smell coming out of helena either.
-
Recent Comments
Duganz on Rape is not “knucklehead… Duganz on Rape is not “knucklehead… Duganz on Rape is not “knucklehead… coppertop on Rape is not “knucklehead… coppertop on Rape is not “knucklehead… Buzz Feedback on Rape is not “knucklehead… lizard19 on Rape is not “knucklehead…
January 22, 2011 at 5:34 pm
nope. and I think it’s fundamental blind spot on the left. you see, WORKING FOR COMPENSATION is different than having somebody else pay your health care while you drink your days away.
January 22, 2011 at 5:40 pm
yep, because everyone who can’t afford health insurance are out of work drunks.
January 22, 2011 at 6:37 pm
lizard, you’re the one who wants me to provide free health care, food, and shelter to anyone who demands it. Don’t act like you don’t want the drunks to butt in line for health care ahead of people who’ve worked for it all their lives.
January 22, 2011 at 6:56 pm
what kind of drunks are we talking about? obviously not Denny, since he’s insured.
ahh, you must be talking about street drunks who burden our health system with chronic emergency room visits, raising the costs for everyone.
yep, none of “those” people have ever worked a day in their lives; they are a homogenous group of free loaders who leech resources away from good, deserving Montanans.
January 22, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Like Obermann?
January 22, 2011 at 5:39 pm
blind spot? better get those eyes checked goof.
i said choice- as in any employer or individual who works getting to choose a government provided health insurance plan instead of crappy blue cross montana plans.
we all work for employers who would love to have the chance to participate in a government provided health insurance plan like denny and your right wing legislators currently enjoy while denying it to us.
we all work here goof. so try again with that blind stuff metaphor.
i think it is the hypocrites who are blind to their own hypocrisy.
January 22, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Mr. B, you mean Denny works for a living and his employer provides a health insurance program, like many large employers, as part of his compensation package?
January 22, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Hard to comprehend, isn’t it?
January 22, 2011 at 5:47 pm
hard to comprehend?
not to any employer or self employed private citizen who has to pay huge premiums to private insurance plans that suck it isn’t.
what is hard to comprehend is how the right can argue against having a choice.
January 22, 2011 at 5:49 pm
after all, it looks like denny agrees with me that government provided health insurance certainly is a better choice than the crappy plans the average worker in montana has to choose from.
seems like your legislators agree with me too, since i judge more by what people do than what they say.
January 22, 2011 at 5:44 pm
denny and the legislators enjoy government provided health insurance and then deny other employers and employees in the state the same choice?
what is not hypocritical about that?
denying employers and citizens who work the choice of the same health plan they enjoy, is complete hypocrisy.
January 22, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Pbear, that smell may be the BS coming from your cave. Denny has EMPLOYER provided health insurance. His employer just happens to differ from non-federal employees that work in banks, manufacturers, etc.
January 22, 2011 at 5:57 pm
there is no convincing the brain washed craig.
when denny and your legislators work against allowing workers in this state the very type of insurance that they help themselves to that is simply hypocrisy.
the illogic of the right wing noise machine won’t change that.
every time an employer or a worker has to fight the crappy choices out there for coverage while paying more and more for the premiums we will remember the hypocrisy too.
helping oneself to something that you deny others is nothing but hypocrisy.
January 22, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Pbear, deal with real facts and we can talk, otherwise it’s just fun watching a bear chase his tail while thinking its following him and calling that flag on his stinky end all sorts of names.
Here is another fact for you to chase in circles. Under Obamacare, employers who provide generous benefits beyond the Borg approved norm will have to pay an excise tax on that premium benefit amount. What’s happening is those employers are reducing their benefits to avoid that tax. Everyone that will experience this can thank Obama for this lump of coal in their stocking.
January 22, 2011 at 6:16 pm
here’s a fact. i don’t support obamacare. it was written by the very same private insurance industry that caused the problems in the first place and it contains a mandate. government has no business mandating anything that infringes on personal choice unless it hurts another citizen.
now that we have gotten that out of the way. how about you dealing with the fact that the very people declaring that we should not be allowed the choice of government provided health insurance are helping themselves to it.
that is hypocrisy.
what the democrats did to destroy this bill was to take the public option out of it. that was craven cowardice and corruption.
i would like nothing more than to see the mandates stricken out of this bill and public option brought back in.
since so many of your republican leaders seem to agree with me that a government provided option is best , why do they deny us the same choice?
or are they just hypocrites?
January 22, 2011 at 6:21 pm
Pbear, your premise: “the very people declaring that we should not be allowed the choice of government provided health insurance are helping themselves to it. ” is FALSE. Federal employees have EMPLOYER provided health insurance.
January 22, 2011 at 6:25 pm
the employer is the government. public option is the government.
you are hanging by a thin thread of semantics there craig.
and it is stretching the truth to deny that your leaders chose the very option the rest of america would love to have except they deny the choice of opting in to us.
January 22, 2011 at 6:30 pm
do you deny the fact that having the choice to opt for government provided health insurance would not be a better option currently available to employers and employees accross this state craig?
would not the choice of government provided health insurance create some incentive for private insurers to improve their product?
because right now, they have a monopoly thanks to baucus’s idiotic mandates.
how else to you break up a monopoly except allow competition? the very competition i might add that your leaders overwhelmingly choose for themselves.
January 22, 2011 at 6:31 pm
Pbear, your argument is becoming more convoluted as you go.
An insurance company may provide one set of benefits to its employees and another to people that buy the company commercial product. So what?
There is no public option to argue about. Red herring kept in a bear’s den would smell bad after awhile.
January 22, 2011 at 6:38 pm
weasel words to deny obvious hypocrisy of your leaders helping themselves to the very product they continue to deny to their constituents won’t help you craig.
denny is a hypocrite along with every lawmaker who chooses government provided health insurance while preaching against govt provided health care
January 22, 2011 at 6:41 pm
My leaders? You mean Jesus? Last I checked he didn’t take sides in such petty political matters.
IF you ever catch that tail, it’s gonna hurt!
January 22, 2011 at 6:50 pm
craig- your scatting, skirting and dancing around the issue simply illustrates that the fact that denny rehberg and other statesmen who help themselves to the very same product that they deny to others is undeniably an act of hypocrisy.
they perfectly fit the definition for it above.
January 22, 2011 at 7:04 pm
My leaders? As I said: “You mean Jesus? Last I checked he didn’t take sides in such petty political matters.”
Your whole diatribe is about your marching orders from your Borg leaders to concoct this specious political attack.
January 22, 2011 at 7:14 pm
i don’t confer with anyone about my opinions craig.
ask anyone.
i don’t strategize with anyone.
i don’t participate in any group think at all. my views are free of whatever borg means.
i don’t agree with democrats most of the time and refuse to follow orders from anyone. so that is another pathetic attempt to divert this discussion with another lie of yours.
what’s next? accuse me of what you will. the argument stands undaunted. denny and the overwhelming majority of your republican legislators are hypocrites.
it is my opinion and my argument alone. i doubt if the people you speak of would want my help anyway. i hate the bill the way it is passed. i hope the supreme court creams the mandate so i can “confer” as you insinuate, my utter disgust with senator baucus and his minions.
January 22, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Pbear, your assertion that your objection is yours and yours alone is just not borne out by your participation here: http://leftinthewest.com/diary/4545/credo-calls-out-denny-rehberg-support-health-care-reform-or-refuse-your-own-coverage
You saluted and clicked your heals with your post here.
January 22, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Pbear, they DON’T help themselves to it. It is provided to them by their EMPLOYER as part of their compensation package.
January 22, 2011 at 6:56 pm
ok – since your leaders have overwhelmingly “chosen” government provided health insurance for themselves and their families, you might want to remind them since you invoked his name -that jesus christ really really really hated hypocrites.
January 23, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Craig, they act as their own employers, giving themselves raises every year, govt paid for healthcare, etc. All regardless of their performance or even any discussion. They reduce their own hours according to their whim and all without discussion or even a vote or notification to their constituents.
January 22, 2011 at 7:41 pm
wasn’t my post craig. but thanks for reminding me about absolutely crushing coobs in the ensuing comments.
i have several there. which one do you want to point to as having influence other than my own opinions.
believe what you want craig. but i keep to myself and do not work with anyone here or anywhere else. my opinions are purely my own. i ascribe to the jesuit method of living which is to educate yourself and make your own opinions. other people never influence me. their ideas might if they are good enough. so far your ideas tonight seem to reflect that of a foot soldier valiantly defending his leaders by any and all means. for that i salute you. but i have no leaders to defend.
i just call a hypocrite a hypocrite when i see one. and dennis rehberg and the overwhelming majority of republicans in the legislature who choose to have government provided health insurance while fighting against it are hypocrites.
matt singer and have many differences. but he gets it right about rehberg and the legislature being hypocrites. but, of course that is simply my opinion.
January 22, 2011 at 5:49 pm
They don’t “enjoy government provided health care”. They enjoy employer provided health care.
So get an effin job, and stop asking for something for nothing.
January 22, 2011 at 5:52 pm
my employer provides insurance goof. it is just a poor choice out there for any employer and way too expensive for what you get. if you were actually in the private sector and had to price them you would realize that.
and i have worked harder than you have for the past 40 years. so get off that crappy lie of yours.
i also owned my own business.
everybody here works for a living and you know it.
January 22, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Don’t like the rewards of your job? Then look for another one. I know I’ve made such choices over the years. “Worked harder than You” is just so much posturing.
I’ve tried to choose, even if it meant less money, midnight shifts, being away from home, to work for employers who offered good health care.
January 22, 2011 at 6:04 pm
so what do you have against your employer having the choice to buy into the same choices of health care that your hero denny and the good old boys of the state legislature chose to receive?
i am guessing that since they chose government provided health insurance it must be better right?
January 22, 2011 at 6:06 pm
i mean, isn’t that what the marketplace tells us?
people tend to choose the best when given a choice.
you and your employer would rather not have the choice to have the best?
January 22, 2011 at 6:08 pm
because right now your party is hell bent on denying any chance of private employers and employees the choice of a government provided health insurance plan.
January 22, 2011 at 6:30 pm
get that SAD evaluated yet, Craig?
January 22, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Larry, 5000 IU’s of Vit D per day and I’m just a smiling all the time. Try it. Your posts seem to indicate a serious paranoia.
January 22, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Don’t forget omega 3; your plan won’t cover your broken neck when you sit down.
January 22, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Gotcha. I take krill oil too.
January 22, 2011 at 6:59 pm
if jesus is your boss, who’s your accountant?
January 22, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Sorry Larry, my Peter comment was for you. ON second thought, on earth it is my wife.
January 22, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Only losers get SAD. Real men don’t get SAD. They get outdoors! There is only a teensy, tiny bit of daylight, so you must get out there and get you some every day. Sitting on your arse inside all day causes one to suffer from SAD. It’s a lazy man’s disease. I seriously doubt that Thoreau evered suffered from sad. “I never trust a thought arrived at sitting down.”
January 22, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Peter.
January 22, 2011 at 7:11 pm
your own or someone else’s?
January 22, 2011 at 7:07 pm
so far every comment from republicans trying to divert attention from the fact that their leaders fighting government provided health insurance choose it for themselves has taught me a lot about the right wing sound machine.
rather than debate they obfuscate. first by telling me that i don’t work for a living. that would be news to everyone who knows me. i have never been without a full-time job in 40 years of my 57.
then they try to blame drunks and vagrants for the fact that the overwhelming majority of their leaders are hypocrites when it comes to obtaining health care for themselves. overwhelmingly, these republican leaders have chosen government provided health insurance for themselves and their families while fighting to make sure the rest of us never have the ability to pool our resources into a similar government provided plan called the public option.
and when that doesn’t work they resort to ridicule. childish ridicule. you can ridicule me all you want, but the fact remains that you are a hypocrite if you signed up to use govt provided health insurance and claim to be against govt provided health insurance.
it is in the very definition of hypocrite itself…..
“a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or opinions.”
it is a sad and pathetic thing to watch them defend hypocrites.
January 22, 2011 at 7:13 pm
maybe it’s because The Right is really hypocritheocracy.
January 22, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Pbear, asking that you pay attention to the FACTS is no defense of Rehberg. It’s about proper context so that the conversation can move beyond politics. Second, your ASSumption about people being R’s is pretty damn funny.
Go ahead and pat yourself on the back until it hurts. It’s quite fun to watch.
Take care now.
January 22, 2011 at 7:16 pm
it’s been fun craig. let’s do it again.
January 22, 2011 at 7:40 pm
This is why I think that it’s time to end tax subsidies for employer-provided insurance.
If everybody can’t benefit from tax-subsidized, employer-provided health insurance, then nobody should.
I mean, I’m sick and tired of having to pay twice to subsidize the health insurance (provided fro the same companies that deny me insurance) and health care of those with employer provided insurance. Once through the tax subsidy, and twice by the inflated rates I have to pay to cover their collectively bargained reduced rates.
I mean, nothing pisses me off more than going into to a health care provider and paying more money–cash–than the nexty guy who comes in with a health care policy that I have helped to subsidize.
So take away all government subsidized tax benefits for health care insurance until all can benefit.
Sorry PB, but that includes your policy too.
January 22, 2011 at 7:48 pm
i understand jc. the baucus bill is a corrupt system that i cannot in good conscience support either as you well know.
this is not an affirmation of the max baucus follies otherwise known as the (comically inspired) title of affordable health care act.
-pause for uproarious laughter from the audience-
i hope the supremes pull the heart right out of that p.o.s. bill. because all it helped was the private insurers who are the very problem with health care in the us today.
if craig thinks public option is dead he doesn’t understand the undercurrent of quiet rage that is forming everywhere in america today as people continue to fight for coverage they pay for with weasels who raise rates with impunity.
January 22, 2011 at 7:37 pm
BTW Pbear, I enjoy jawing with you. Please don’t take anything I said too personal. Same for me.
I respect your work with the poor. Thank you for service.
January 22, 2011 at 7:42 pm
same here craig. i always wish the very best to you and yours.
January 22, 2011 at 10:48 pm
Moore, I have no respect for you other than as a devil’s advocate. Look, you and I BOTH know that Rheburg is a greedy, venal, selfish little pretend man who looks out only for his self-interest and that of his corporate benefactors. He has NEVER amounted to a hill of beans at ANY endeavor in his entire life other than sucking off his government jobs. And that’s the truth. What is this man qualified to do? The man is completely without compassion as he is of talent. And this is why he chooses to provide health care for himself while cutting health care for everyone else. He’s slime no matter how you cut it. I mean, really, to sue the fire department? And give HIMSELF health care while denying it to everyone else? Please, I await with baited breath your more concise, complete definition of slime.
January 23, 2011 at 10:51 am
Pogue Mahone brings you this comment in the spirit of dialing back the rhetoric and encouraging a more civil discourse.
January 23, 2011 at 10:51 am
Boy – Denny better start worrying, or you guys might not vote for him again – LOL
January 23, 2011 at 11:32 am
Looking at the comments from right-wingers here, I think back to the very old days when my friends and I attended Saturday morning matinees at the local theater.
We often saw westerns in which the hero (who usually wore a white hat) and hard-working but oppressed ranchers fought against greedy business types (who wore black hats) and their hired thugs (who also wore black hats).
By the way, I recall one black-hat wearing villain with a moustache who looked a lot like Rehberg. I think he was called “Slade.”
Anyway, I wonder if the right-wingers who are all over this blog, as children, would’ve rooted for the guys wearing the black hats. I suspect they would’ve. And the rest of us would’ve looked at them with disdain and figured there was something wrong with their heads.
January 23, 2011 at 5:12 pm
I don’t like calling members of congress, or especially of the legislature, government employees. They’re much more like employers in this context.
In any event, there’s a non-trivial argument that the Affordable Care Act itself limits Rep. Rehberg’s ability to participate in the federal employee plans.
http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=045cebde-13b7-40d6-b5d5-2fddbdc64704
It’s a question of when the limiting provision is effective: in March 2010, or once the exchanges get going. I think March 2010 is the better answer, legally speaking, but can see why the people affected would want the other answer.
January 23, 2011 at 5:51 pm
I see the start of this thread isn’t an original thought but part of a national astroturfing campaign by the same people that brought you the “Palin did this now why can’t we all get along you assholes on the right?” campaign.
“Daily Kos and Blue America are raising money to do local radio buys to spread the word on this.” (from LitW’s post of the same anti Rehberg post)
January 23, 2011 at 6:02 pm
truth comes from every mouth not vested in lies.
January 23, 2011 at 6:21 pm
no one has to point out the hypocrisy of lawmakers helping themselves to government health benefits while they declare the ability to buy into those same benefits off limits to every private employer and employee in this state….
it is self-evident.
and yet more evidence that the gop gives not one good damn about small businesses in this state. the gop backs big corporate donors just like the corrupt democrats do.
January 23, 2011 at 6:40 pm
making health insurance more affordable should be a linch-pin of any serious attempt to create jobs in this state.
both parties are afraid of allowing private enterprise the ability to opt in to government provided insurance pools because it would anger the private health insurance industry in this country. that is truth.
it is time for schweitzer to create a public pool of insurance in this state much like vermont has. it would drive businesses to our state and create jobs.
http://hcr.vermont.gov/
then dare the republicans to kill it.
that is what should have been done with health care reform- but all aspects of congress are too corrupt. it is up to individual states to provide better and affordable health insurance for its small businesses and its citizens. the private health insurers are running amok and destroying health care in this country. ask any doctor who is not vested in lies.
January 23, 2011 at 8:37 pm
I would not call Denny an employee. As an employee, I don’t get to vote to give myself a pay raise or health benefits. If any analogy fits to describe Denny’s and other legislature’s role in government, they are the corporate board members.
January 23, 2011 at 8:56 pm
CFS, Rehberg is an employee. His employer pays his salary and provides benefits, one of which is health insurance, just like any other employee working for that employer. It’s rather tortured logic to deny the facts in order to manufacture an argument of some other status which is erroneous. Don’t conflate his employee benefit with the larger issue. Conflation is rather disingenuous to make a specious argument for pure political purposes. Mr. B nails it.
January 23, 2011 at 9:10 pm
CFS, we, the citizens of our country, are the board of directors. That’s why with our vote we can turn out those political executives that don’t measure up when their employment contracts run out.
January 24, 2011 at 12:13 am
Aren’t we more like the shareholders, and the politicians are the board members – they get to make decisions but they must answer to the shareholders? I’m just saying, if we want to keep our analogy accurate.
January 24, 2011 at 8:46 am
And just like shareholders in a large corporation, our individual votes matter very little.
January 24, 2011 at 9:14 am
PW, receiving a W-2 says that Rehberg is an employee. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm
Doesn’t fit the political attack narrative, but thems the facts.
January 24, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Why not craig?
I didn’t say the hypocrites couldn’t choose govt provided health insurance.
I said they were hypocrites because they so vehemently condemn the very programs that they happily enjoy themselves.
Thems the facts.
January 24, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Pbear, an employment benefit provided to employees is not the same program that employer provides to public customers, clients, or other beneficiaries. Besides other differences the former is typically subsidized by the employer. They are NOT the same program.
Instead of specious claims of Rehberg’s here’s the record: http://www.ontheissues.org/house/Dennis_Rehberg_Health_Care.htm
Here’s his statement on defunding Obamacare: http://helenair.com/news/article_1e76949c-1a84-11e0-b335-001cc4c03286.html
Nothing in all this comes remotely close to your assertion that he condems “…the very programs that they happily enjoy themselves.” He condemns Obamacare, just as you have done. Near as I can tell Rehberg is part of the movement to halt it and replace it with more workable programs.
None of this discussion even touches upon the 26 states suing the feds over Obamacare. IF this succeeds it’s finished anyway. The solution seems to me is not fight over it but replace it with more workable programs that improve healthcare delivery and cost.
January 24, 2011 at 4:42 pm
i am willing to set aside our differences on rehberg’s approach and endorse your solution to replace the p.o.s. baucus bill with something more affordable, reliable and workable but only if it benefits the customer/employee/employer first by providing meaningful alternatives rather than strengthen the merciless grip of the monopolistic private healthcare cartel.
further feeding the bottomless money pits of united healthcare and blue cross with more profits by allowing them to deny claims and jack up premiums at will was not what 70% of the public wanted when health care reform was first envisioned.
we expected some form of competitive market (preferably govt provided) rather than mandated purchasing of crappy products from the weasels that created most of this mess with unfathomable greed.
and if the legislature is not willing to provide montanans with a government provided alternative that is affordable and reliable, then i think montana should initiate a voter’s initiative to start the process of creating one ourselves.
it is obvious that washington dc is far too corrupt and in the pocket of the health care vultures to do anythin sensible about it.
January 24, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Pbear, we are largely in agreement.
January 24, 2011 at 12:47 pm
I am not denying facts Craig, I was simply stating that to me, calling our elected officials employees is a real stretch.
According to Black’s Law Guide an employee is defined as, “A person in the service of another under any contract of hire, express or implied, oral or written, where the employer has the power or right to control and direct the employee in the material details of how the work is to be performed.”
“…employer has the power or right to control and direct the employee in the material details of how the work is to be performed.” This definition doesn’t fit the relationship of legislators to government, the people, or their work.
The fact that legislators get a W-2 is an accounting technicality. Congress can vote to exempt itself from federal labor laws as it has done in the past with the equal-opportunity law and others. Congress corrected this with the Congressional Accountability Act, but the fact remains that congress can exempt itself from the laws it passes. As an employee I can’t exempt myself from paying into FICA or from federal labor laws.
January 24, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Hmmm… it sounds to me like our elected Congressional folks are employees. It’s just that we aren’t correctly fingering who their employers are.
Judging by the description above, and my own knowledge, it would appear that their employers are lobbyists and the corporations they work for.
You say those descriptions don’t “fit the relationship of legislators to government, the people, or their work.”
But they sure fit the description of the relationship of legislators to lobbyists and corporate funders.
January 24, 2011 at 8:17 am
He’s an employee, for this purpose, because congress declared itself employees, for this purpose. Not every purpose, but specifically this one. 5 U.S.C. section 8901. It can just as easily say that the better rule is to treat members of congress as if they were part of the general public — certainly the thinking behind (and strength of) our part-time legislature.
January 23, 2011 at 9:59 pm
In trying to repeal and/or defund Obamacare, Rehberg is only doing what a vast majority of Montanans want. He should be applauded. Montanans are not uniformed on this issue. This type of national healthcare will bankrupt our country and not do what is intended – and that is to cover everyone. Instead, it leaves millions uninsured, and hundreds of millions more with health care that is worse than what they have. Repeal, replace. End of story.
Same goes for Tester, who purposely avoided interactions with Montanans for over a year, just to avoid hearing how much we do not want this bill. Repeal and replace.
January 23, 2011 at 10:06 pm
sure, repeal and replace with a non-profit single payer system.
January 23, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Replace it with a choice of opting in to public option to create competition with private health insurance and I agree.
January 23, 2011 at 10:33 pm
It’s remarkably humorous, in a painful kind of way, how few people right or left are willing to challenge this “common knowledge”.
January 23, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Don’t know much about what was done in Vermont, but will read the materials you reference in your link. Thanks.
I’m not for the public option as touted during the health care debate last year. Afraid that companies will opt out and force people into this program, or that government will provide a competitive edge to any program they prefer. Either way, my gut is the political economics will benefit this plan against others. If this could be stopped, maybe, but it would have to mean politicians couldn’t intervene. I think competition is the only way to fix this, but real competition – not what we have now with massive federal rules and limitations on who can provide services in each state.
I personally like the idea of people paying themselves, since we are the ones most vested in the decision. If we want more services, we pay. For those that can’t, I think we should have a plan that provides some standard level of care. There needs to be a safety net as well as an incentive to not overconsume or be wasteful including rewards for healthy, cost saving behavior. To me, it is just like sending things to the dump. There should be limits otherwise people will over consume, throw away loads of trash, fill up our landfill and ultimately wreak the environment. Recycling and being prudent with resources should always be rewarded. We need to raise a generation of health care conservationists like we have with the environment.
People should have access to basic health care, but it also comes with a responsibility. Nobody really talks about the second part. They must go hand in hand. That is why the current bill needs to be repealed and replaced with something that provides basic heathcare with limits while encouraging healthy behavior. Recycling is responsible. So is making sure you get a good deal on optional health care services, or by not buying what you don’t need. Health care providers should be required by law to post costs for care, like any restaurant or grocery store.
People forget we could remove this problem if we just took better care of ourselves, limited overindulgence, incented people to be good consumers, and stopped the lawsuits that are wreaking the whole system.
January 23, 2011 at 11:05 pm
anything is better than a bill that was handed over to the private health insurance cartel to draft.
here is hoping that the supreme court throws out the mandates. forcing people to buy their crappy products certainly won’t help competition to make their products better or more affordable.
that idiot baucus and cowardly democrats certainly crafted a lousy bill. no argument there. my problem is trusting republicans to rein in the health insurers. so far republicans have not been champions of free enterprise in any of our other necessities- they are as bad as the democrats in giving big banks and big foreign owned corporations all the advantages while ignoring the plight of small businesses and its employees, because of campaign corruption.
if the legislature won’t create an affordable alternative to private health insurance then i think the only way to do this is to do it with a voter’s initiative in 2012.
January 23, 2011 at 11:32 pm
when we talk about health care we are also talking about socio-economics. we are talking about the quality of food poor families can afford, and the consequences, like lower life expectancy.
we are also talking about this
tell me, how can anyone defend the fiscal fucking we are taking from profit-ravenous parasites like blue shield?
January 26, 2011 at 2:10 am
“tell me, how can anyone defend the fiscal fucking we are taking from profit-ravenous parasites like blue shield?”
Beats me.
Why do big employers with adequate resources like to insure themselves, even if it means paying someone else to run the system? It’s not because private insurance is really cost effective. Remove the profit margin, increase the economy of scale to a national level, and I think it only makes sense that efficiency will go up.
January 24, 2011 at 7:19 am
Well, I’ll be honest with you, Mr. Problem, I sure do smell something downwind of Montana, it’s getting stronger every day since I left that creep hole 6 years ago, and that’s saying quite a lot because I’m 12,000 miles away, about as far as I can get without getting into the space program.
January 24, 2011 at 8:12 am
This is like looking up a dead horse’s ass. Recall the famous Obama quip, “I screwed up.” Since ip is an ex-pat South Dakotan, holding latent resentment for Max has become an obsession.
January 26, 2011 at 12:01 am
I noticed some specific numbers the other day that caught my eye. “Effective January 1, 2011, monthly rates are $60.50 for one person, $109.00 for a family of two and $121.00 for a family of three or more.” For a family making $30,000 or more per year—these are the top rates.
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html#monthly
Reply
January 26, 2011 at 12:28 am
that is for british columbia in canada cosmicgarden
are you just trying to torture us here in montana with those monthly premium rates for health insurance?
……. costs that much a day here in the good old usa.
(hey that rhymes)
January 26, 2011 at 1:46 am
I know– in all the noise over the last year and more, I heard lots of talk about the pros and cons of the Canadian system, but very little specific data. Just as most people I heard from had no idea how much their employer-paid premiums cost, or what is really covered under their policy. But that’s part of the beauty of hypocrisy—if they never talk specifics it’s easy to huff and puff and blow a whole lot of meaningless hot air. The tort reform argument is old and tired and starting to wear thin, too. When people learn real facts they think differently from where the propaganda stories leads them.
~~~
“WOMAN ON THE STREET 1: Are you going to show me the burns?
SUSAN SALADOFF: Yeah.
MAN ON THE STREET 1: What?
SUSAN SALADOFF: Yeah. Would that change your mind at all?
MAN ON THE STREET 2: Wow. Yes, if I saw injuries like that, I would definitely take a different view of it, from what I hear from the media.
MAN ON THE STREET 3: Oh, my gosh!
AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt of the documentary Hot Coffee. It premiered here at Sundance on Monday. It tells the story of Stella Liebeck. She was 79 years old. She made national headlines when she sued McDonald’s after spilling a scalding cup of hot coffee on her lap. The lawsuit had the whole country talking—and many laughing.
But what most people don’t know is that Stella suffered third-degree burns on 16 percent of her body. And you also may not know that corporations have spent millions of dollars distorting the story to promote tort reform and alter our country’s justice system.”
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/25/do_you_know_the_full_story