Rick Jore must go

by Jay Stevens 

John Adams has a sweet profile of nutcase Rick Jore in today’s Independent, centered around a visit by Constitution Party members to Hellgate High School in Missoula.

In the story, Jore calls public funding of schools “welfare for education,” and promises to make life difficult for a legislature that will soon toil under a Montana Supreme Court order that the body must “develop an adequate funding mechanism” for public education:

“The Legislature is not constitutionally bound, in my opinion, under the separation of doctrine, to acquiesce to the court’s opinion,” he says. “I’m not at all convinced that continuing on the same path of just giving more money, and not addressing accountability and parental rights and authority, is the course we want to go.”

Rick Jore:

The Federal government has no Constitutional authority to fund or interfere with education and I will oppose all federal funds appropriated for education.

From Rick Jore’s Constitution Party’s platform:

All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents. Education should be free from all federal government subsidies, including vouchers, tax incentives, and loans, except with respect to veterans.

Because the federal government has absolutely no jurisdiction concerning the education of our children, the United States Department of Education should be abolished; all federal legislation related to education should be repealed. No federal laws subsidizing or regulating the education of children should be enacted. Under no circumstances should the federal government be involved in national teacher certification, educational curricula, textbook selection, learning standards, comprehensive sex education, psychological and psychiatric research testing programs, and personnel.

This is the guy Sideshow Scott Sales thought appropriate to sit in the state House’s most powerful seat for state education.

Jeff Mangan – hardly a liberal – is calling Sideshow Scott’s committee appointments indicative of the leadership’s “extremist attitude towards education,” and claims “the credibility of the Republican Party is at stake.”

Matt Singer is calling for Jore’s ouster from the chair of the House Education committee. I agree wholeheartedly. We shouldn’t be playing politics with our children’s education. To help prod moderate Republicans into action, go sign Forward Montana’s online petition and forward it to other interested Montanans.

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  1. Darn voters! If it wasn’t for them we’d have all liberals in Helena, just like it’s supposed to be, right?

  2. Oops! My bad! I thought the nutters in the constitution party have only one candidate in the entire legislature. I didn’t realize a clear majority of Montanans favor Jore’s extremist views on education.

  3. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

    That’s ALL mr. adamns had to say?! Wow! The greatest journalistic mouse to ever roar could not come up with ANY more to say about Jork than that?! Guess he’da done better if Jork had a brother!!!! Oh well. So much for the Foxdependent news!

  4. Jon Rutt

    Is calling Mr. Jore a nutcase your opinion of the voters that elected him? The system is set up to balance your opinion, my opinion and Mr. Jore’s. He just happened to get elected. Maybe his voice in the wilderness will spark ideas we can all live with.

  5. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

    p.s. But one redeeming article in the Mizzoolian Foxdependent is the article by Paul Peters entiteld “There Goes the Neighborhood”, or some such about Pukin’ Blue, the nazis inbreds that recently moved to Kalispell. Seems that the darling little nazi songturds are on a recruitment drive to get OTHER inbreds to move there! Quite interesting.

  6. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

    THAT’D BE MY OPINION, JONNY! Anyone who holds Jork’s opinions IS a nutcase! For you see, there ain’t many that do! But it’s a free country. A fella can’t belive that breathin’ farts is fresh air for all I care! Just don’t appoint them the head committees!

  7. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

    Oops. That should be CAN believe that breathin’ farts is fresh air!

  8. Jon Rutt

    I’m glad you caught that. I was beginnining to wonder about your opinion.

  9. Maybe some teachers who are paid a full salary, just to teach 5 students have a different perspective, what do you think Larry?

  10. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers!

    Jon, you DID get my point though, right? Look, if a guy believes that breathin’ flatulence is a good thing, you DON’T appoint him to head the committe in charge of air quality! For you see, MOST people would disagree! But that is exactly what Soupy Sales has done. He has PURPOSELY angered his opponents. Why? Is that a smart thing to do? Nope. But then, I have never heard anyone accuse Sales of being a raging intellect. Have you? But in this case, nearly ALL Montanans are opponents! Nearly all Montanans value free, quality public education! It’s called givin’ sumthin’ back. Most thinking, rational people understand that if you enjoy the tremendous benefits of our society, it’s incumbent upon you to give something back. If that entails paying for public education, well, so be it. It’s called the common good. And we all benefit from it. Guys like Jork amaze me. For you see, they seem to have the unabomber mentalilty. In other words, as long as they’ve got an eight by ten cabin in the woods, the rest of the world can go to hell! I think that Jork will simply be the legislative equivalent of judy mars, another Rethugly idea gone bad.

  11. Is calling Mr. Jore a nutcase your opinion of the voters that elected him?

    I do think the voters were egregiously wrong to elect someone who will work against their best self-interests.

    And can something positive come out of this? Perhaps once exposed to the light during this brouhaha, the Constitution Party will wither on the vine.

  12. Jon Rutt

    Isn’t that the great thing about living in America and Montana. I see your point and and I respect your opinion about the self- interests of the voters. Maybe they are the lucky ones because they have no question on the stand Mr. Jore has taken. I would like to see all legislators be as honest.

    The voters get what they vote for, whether they deserve it or not. You cannot save people from themselves.

    I honestly do agree with you. I just like the discussion.

  13. Rick Jore is the worst option for this position. Why as a freshman should he chair this committee?

  14. It’s true, Jon, that we in Montana have a lot more interaction with the way our state is governed than in a lot of other states. That’s one of my favorite things about living here: you can actually have an impact.

    Back to Jore…while Jore was elected by a majority of his district’s voters, the views of the Constitution Party are held by a fraction of the state’s citizens. No other Constitution Party member was elected to the legislature, yet Jore has one of the most powerful legislative positions in state government.

  15. Yosemite1967

    First: Shane, Jore isn’t really a freshman.

    Second: touchstone, I have a few questiosn:

    1. You called members of the Constitution Party “nutters”. What beliefs, in your opinion, make them such?

    2. You called Jore’s views on education “extremist”. What makes (a) his views extremist, (b) your definition of extremist correct, and (c) what you’re calling extremism in this case wrong?

    3. You said that Jore “will work against [the voters’] best self interests”. Can I assume, then, that you believe that it is in the voters’ best interests to have schools (at least partially) controlled and funded by the federal government? If so, why?

    In essence, I’m asking that we talk about these things in such a way that we may get somewhere or make some thought progress, rather than just name calling and bashing without any substancial information being presented.

  16. Yellowstone, I have provided all the links to Jore’s own website and his party’s platform. I am not objective. If a view is extreme — and Jore’s decidedly is — I’ll say so. You’re free to feel differently, or follow the links to judge for yourself.

    And by “extreme,” I mean his views reflect a splinter of Americans as a whole. Remember, the Constitution Party has one — one — elected legislative representative in the entire country. That puts him further out there than American socialists.

    As for explaining why I think Jore’s views on education are wrong, I assumed his positions and his words spoke for themselves. I mean, he’s asking for religious indroctination to be entwined with education! That’s not a mainstream value or belief.

    In the end, of course, it’s me who decides what and how content appears in the blog. There are as many different styles of blogging as there are bloggers. If you don’t like the way I talk about the legislature, you’re free to start your own blog.

  17. Yosemite1967

    touchstone, you got my main point about objectivity, so continuing on that vein:

    So, when you say “extreme”, you mean something like, “only reflected by a splinter of Americans as a whole”? Do you believe that a small minority on any subject is always wrong? Also, there are likely many who share Jore’s views on education who are not members of his party.

    So, you believe that religious indoctrination should not be entwined with education and claim that your view is mainstream. Do you have any data to substantiate that? Also, it again appears that you’re laboring under the belief that the mainstream is always right. Is that what you believe?

    If you don’t want to hear constructive criticism about your methods of debate (your “style”), erase my messages and any reference to them, and I won’t bother you again. I’m not meaning to challenge you to a battle of wits or flex my mental muscle. I’m only hoping that you’ll consider some methods of debate which (in my subjective opinion) are more civilized and, in my past experience, tend to greater progress and understanding between differing parties.

  18. Yosemite, I feel like you know all the answers to the questions here, and have your own opinion on them. That’s fine. Feel free to express them.

    BTW, very few blogs consider “debate” to be of paramount importance. This blog has never claimed to discuss issues “fairly” or has wanted to encourage dialog with folks who are opposed to my positions. I’m not running 4&20 blackbirds as a site where people meet to hash out differences.

    I’m a rabid partisan hack. This site is my bullhorn.

    I believe that’s what blogs do, they rouse and incite. They bring passion back to politics. I’m a cheerleader, not a civic leader.

    Check out NOW’s coverage of this and other blogs. Markos M pretty much sums up how blogs can be effective, and I subscribe to his view.

    That’s not to say, of course, that I don’t apply good debate rhetoric to some issues, and have thrown up my blog as a place to hash out differences. I feel my posts on gay marriage do just that, for example.

    But I don’t think Rick Jore or the Constitution party have earned my attention. Other sites have done so, such as MTPolitics, notably in the comments.

    Maybe someday I’ll reflect on the nature of extremism and political debate, but right now that’s not what I’m thinking about…

  19. Trent Hill

    Touchstone, I feel you dodged the question.

    In the 1950’s, a VERY small minority thought blacks should be able to vote. Were they wrong?
    Of course not, they were 100% correct.

    Just because Jore’s views are not reflected widely does not mean they are illegitimate. In fact, Jore is an amazing politician who is bringing a different dynamic to the Legislature.

  20. Yes, Trent, I dodged the question. Mainly because I don’t feel it’s worth the time invested.

    On the other hand, I’m getting a lot of inquiry from, I’d guess, Jore supporters. Maybe I will look into a reasonable discussion on the issues.

    BTW, I’m sort of staggered by your comparison of Constitution Party issues and the civil rights movement…

    …tho I must remind myself we ALL feel like we’re the true advocates of democracy & co…

  21. Yosemite1967

    Thank you, Trent, for taking that question and mapping it onto another situation, to test whether it holds water. Doing such an exercise is a fair and objective practice, though I’m saddened that you were derided for it.

    touchstone, though I don’t know Trent, and I didn’t expect his response (which I welcome), I would identify it to you as a demonstration of the “high road” methods which I’m trying to get across to you as being superior for the furtherance of understanding and unity between people.

    If, however, I’m correctly understanding the jist of your responses to me, it appears that your purpose for this blog is to stir up greater division and anger. Am I interpreting your responses correctly? If so, then rhetoric, name calling, and ranting will continue to serve you perfectly well, if that can be called “well”.

  22. (a) Being a minority doesn’t automatically provide legitimacy. Stormfront.org is also an extremist group. Should I devote my time and energy to discussing why whites aren’t the master race?

    (b) Blogs aren’t and never were “objective.” Think of the blogosphere as an enormous Op-Ed page.

    (c) Obviously, Yosemite, you have different standards than I do. I happen to think the idea of passionless, “objective” debate is fool’s gold. Never happened, never will, and isn’t necessarily admirable. I like that democracy is messy, noisy, at times rude and anarchic. Like street theater. Or the back of the school bus.

    If that’s not your style, great. Start your own blog. Create your ideal tone. But don’t expect everyone to adhere to your ideals. And don’t assume your ideas or manners are actually more useful or helpful than mine.

    Or, you can apply your own standards of argumentation to this very topic instead of stooping to name-calling. Why do you think your methods are “high road”? Why do you think these “high road” methods serve us? Why do you think my methods are “low road”? Or that these “low road” methods aren’t more conducive to promoting democratic participation?

  23. Yosemite1967

    I’m not claiming, like you just did, that the existing blogosphere is an image of myself. The blogosphere is admittedly an unruly beast and defines itself. It’s not all like you, and it’s not all like me, but it contains parts like you and parts like me.

    I’m only promoting blogging which will increase understanding and unity between people, rather than blogging which will increase misunderstanding and division.

    The tendency of divisive blogs is to side-step substantive questions, rather than try to answer them, perhaps because it’s so easy–requiring little thought, less self restraint, and no study.

    I had hoped that you would take up the challenge and exercise a little effort to objectively discuss the issue of Jore on the education committee, but the absence of effort by one side of a discussion makes it impossible for any progress to be made. So, I’ll let you get your last word in, and I’ll sign off with a couple of relevant quotes:

    “By their fruits, ye shall know them.”

    “Whatsoever ye sow, that shall ye also reap.”

  24. I agree substantive issues should be discussed. If you are a regular reader of this blog, you’ll no doubt already have noticed I have discussed substantive issues. I guess that’s where we differ: I don’t think eliminating free public education is a serious position worthy of discussion.

  25. Trent Hill

    Touchstone,

    “I don’t think eliminating free public education is a serious position worthy of discussion.”

    Allow to fascilitate your education on this subject. The issue of public education was not thought prudent by the Founding Fathers (Although they discussed it while writing the Constitution, and Jefferson mentioned it when writing the Kentucky Resolutions, unfavorably).
    You will most likely say “The founding fathers also supported slavery!”
    This is true, and yet applies to a different section of arguementation, as the society in general was not ready for slavery to end, indeed would not be for at least another one hundred years.

    Another arguement against public education is as follows. It is a plank from the Socialist Party’s platform. I don’t think I need to explain the evils of socialism to you, if I do, I don’t think this conversation/blog is going anywhere.

    Lastly, what does Public Education do to further our economic system of Capitalism? Nothing.
    A private system of education (perhaps with government loans or scholarships to improve chances of poor students) will offer more choices. More choices=better product. That is the basis for our economic system. Currently, the public education system is a large toilet bowl, through which substantial amounts of money slide through unchecked. Because no one has to worry about “profits”, none are made. This provides for an environment in which extra expenditure is ohk, because it does not personally cost you anything, and the probability of being “fired” for your over-expenditure, is very low.

    Get it?




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