payday lenders beware; coming to a sidewalk near you…

black-bear

by problembear

let’s just make it a date for around may 2010, shall we?  

since it’s valentine’s day i want to be sure and let you know that we want to get close to your business with our signs and talk to a few folks….hope you won’t mind….i will try and stay upwind….so you get the full effect.

he’s stinky, he’s wide, he’s a problem….and he’s coming to a sidewalk near you….also a great big problembear shout out to all those montana legislators who voted in this legislative session to allow predatory payday and vehicle title loan businesses to continue to charge montana’s working poor 650% interest. we won’t forget you either. i promise…..we will visit your legislative districts to give a great big bear hug to all who join montana’s citizens; republicans, democrats, progressives and independents who demand regulation of this industry, and to stump for your more fair-minded opponents.

as of this writing there is still a slim chance that the republican members of the montana legislature will come to their senses and allow senate bill 397 to move forward but if not we would like to assure them that there will be a citizen based ballot initiative addressing this issue available for all of us to vote for payday/vehicle title regulation in 2010. watch for it…you can just smell it coming already can’t you?

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  1. Jer

    Until you really need a small, temporary loan, you’ll never understand what access to the payday loan product can mean to someone in need.

    36% APR rate caps ($1.38/per $100 loaned for 2 weeks) on payday loan businesses will certainly achieve your goal of driving us out of business.

    So… where do you propose a employed person with a $200 car repair go so they can fix their car and keep their job?

    Sure, some will have some friends left who will loan them the money until payday. Others may have family still willing to make them a temporary loan or perhaps even a gift. But there are 1000’s of consumers who lack this option.

    So you want to take this choice away from those in need because you think YOU and our government know what’s best for the rest of us!

    Wrong! This is America.

    • trucksage

      What’s wrong with reasonable, fair, affordable interest? Loan sharking is illegal in every other form. As soon as possible, it will be in this one, too.

      • legislation is pending in washington and in many states to regulate these scoundrels. charging people 650% interest is an embarrassment to our nation.

        voters and legislators are slowly but surely cleaning our streets of this scum.

  2. Jer

    If Brooks Street is lined up with payday loan stores it means there is a demand for the payday loan product.

    If there were buggy whip stores on Brooks Street… Well, I think you get the picture.

  3. klemz

    Right. Brooks Street is lined with these places because a working class family occasionally has an unforeseen expense. What do you think we are, Palin boosters?

  4. Jer

    JC, my point about buggy whip stores was simply that there was no longer any demand so they went away. If credit unions and banks ever develop a competing product that allows them a “fair profit” (whatever that is) payday loans will go away as well. While we’re on it, NSF fees and overdraft fees approach 2100% APR’s when computed annually.

    Problembear, you’re right! Some payday loan customers abuse the product! They never get their act together. And some of the idiot, greedy payday loan operators in our industry bleed their customers like leeches. I denounce them!

    Unfortunately, it’s human nature for a small percentage of our society. Bankers, wall street, politicians, the ruling members of the communist party… we see greed, corruption, and taking advantage of our fellow citizens exists in all walks of life.

    Personally, I think if a 4 foot 300lb customer walks into an ice cream store and the ice cream store owner sells them a hot fudge sundae it’s a shame. Should that ice cream customer die later that evening of clogged arteries it’s a tragedy. But should government dictate whether the ice cream should have been sold in the first place?

    JC, if you really want a truly independent evaluation of the payday loan consumer it’s available here:
    The George Washington University School of Business “An Analysis of Consumers’ Use of Payday Loans” at
    http://www.business.gwu.edu/research/centers/fsrp/pdf/m41.pdf

  5. Oyster Pirate

    There used to be these things called “banks” where people went to get loans.

  6. JC

    I think the payday loan industry creates its own demand.

    Those who use the services are destined to keep coming back, as the excessive costs of the loans keep the victims ensconced in the system.

    Mr. PayDayLoanIndustry, please give us hard data on your customers. How many are one-time-only customers (of the system, not a particular business)? How many are repeat? How many never get out of the system once the enter? What percent of your perennial customers’ income is handed over to you in the form of exorbitant interest?

    Answer those questions, and you’ll see why you run a most hated and hurtful industry.

  7. well, Jen, buggy whip merchants are not loan sharks. your business is a bunch of loan sharks preying on the working poor with unconscionable interest rates of 650% which in my book is pretty hard to defend as necessary to maintain a viable return on any business. under montana current law this constitutes a license for the wealthy to steal from those who can afford it least. it cripples them financially many to the point that they must seek assistance from the state and non-profits simply to shelter and feed themselves. i see no reason why montana should not regulate this business to the same 36% interest rates that congress forced your monstrously greedy bosses to charge members of the military. (after several years of stealing from our military personnel who were defending your freedoms. a more disgusting pack of jackals would be difficult to find than the industry you represent.

  8. by the way i encourage everyone interested to click on jer’s link above his comment. his own website (based in Las Vegas no less) does an excellent job of making my arguments for me….definitely worth reading that first couple of paragraphs. talk about evil. good god.

  9. Jer

    Binky, legalize it; don’t legalize it. Heroin still exists and is bought and sold everyday. Actually the government has legalized it. It’s called methadone! And yes, methadone is abused.

    You may very well shutdown payday loan stores and everything else you think should not exist, from legalized marijuana locations to check cashers, to pawn shops to car title loans, to strip joints, to cigarettes, to alcohol… but they will all continue to exist because there is a continued demand for these things.

    And a portion of the users of these products/services will abuse them and a portion of the “dealers” will abuse the consumers.

    You can’t legislate these things out of existence. What you can do if you really care is launch educational programs for the consumers and tax the “dealers” so that you can fund these education programs. Of course the users are really paying because the “dealers” will pass the costs along to the users.

    Let me be clear, tax the user of cigarettes and fund the education programs with this money. Don’t tax ALL of us to educate the cigarette abusers. Of course, substitute payday loans or alcohol or whatever for “cigarettes” above.

    We all know the results achieved by legislating products/services out of existence. They go underground. Consumer protection doesn’t exist. Rates go up. In the case of “loan sharks” they break legs.

    Finally, payday loan companies don’t hide their rates. The majority, by law, post their rates on their walls in 48pt fonts. Example: “We charge $15 per $100 loaned for a 14 day loan. This equals a 850% Annual Percentage Rate.

  10. Jer, Following your logic we would legalize heroin stores.

    You know that there is a demand for heroin. Yes, there are some who abuse heroin. And, yes, we denounce the dealers that continue to sell them heroin.

    Maybe if the government regulated heroin dealers, only allowing them a fair profit (“whatever that is”) they would go out of business, too?

  11. The problem with your theory Binky seems to be this, excuse or prosacute one thing by pointing to another. That doesn’t work out. If you arte fortunit enough not to ever need a payday loan, then good for you. However there are others that do. I used to know a couple who had to get a payday loan every month just to be able to eat that month. What bank is going to loan someone $100-$200, if you know of one please let us all know.

  12. The problem with your theory Binky seems to be this, excuse or prosecute one thing by pointing to another. That doesn’t work out. If you are fortunate enough not to ever need a payday loan, then good for you. However there are others that do. I used to know a couple who had to get a payday loan every month just to be able to eat that month. What bank is going to loan someone $100-$200, if you know of one please let us all know.

  13. JC

    Jer, thanks for the info. Here’s a few excerpts corroborating our disgust with this form of lending:

    “Consider the 29.6 percent of customers that used 14 or more payday loans in the last 12 months. Assuming a two-week average term, 14 loans suggest that these consumers owed payday loans for over half of the year. That they owed payday loans for more than half of the year gives some credibility to the view that payday loans may lead consumers to ever increasing indebtedness that ultimately ends in default.”

    “payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy”

    Let’s take the case of the above noted 29.6% of customers who held loans for 28 weeks. If the average loan was “only” $100, then the customer has paid $32 dollars in interest by the time he pays back the first loan. After the third loan, he has paid enough interest to, in effect, not need to borrow the $100 again. By the end of the year, he has paid $442, assuming an average loan of only $100!

    The logic of this tells me that after three 2-week long hundred dollar loans, the customer has been trapped in a system that continues to bleed his ability to meet his current needs.

    With the end result being this;

    “payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy”

    Then there’s this statement:

    “Although most payday loan customers remembered receiving information on the annual percentage rate, relatively few could recall accurately what annual percentage rate was disclosed.

    with this unsubstantiated, and derogatory conclusion:

    Apparently, the annual percentage rate was not sufficiently useful to warrant retaining the information in memory.

    But I really have to laugh about this:

    “This project was supported in part by a grant from the Community Financial Services Association of America.”

    Um, the same CFSA that over half of the payday lenders belong to. The disclaimer might as well have read: “this study paid for by the interest on payday loans.” Nice to know that the CFSA has their own researcher in their pocket, and embedded in GWU and the Federal Reserve System.

    But the kicker about Elliehausen is this paper he penned in 2005 attacking proposals to regulate the subprime lending industry:

    “After rapid initial growth of subprime mortgage lending, a market has developed that seems to correlate credit prices with borrower risk. There is no evidence that it is a market with significant market failure. And, there is ample evidence that stringent regulatory proposals like those enacted in Georgia and North Carolina, and the even more stringent proposals advocated by the AARP Proposal, will impair the availability of credit in these markets without delivering the benefits promised to consumers.”

    Yes, the payday loan shark industry has hired one of the Federal Reserve’s insiders–and one of the proponents of the “low-regulation” crowd of financiers–to write their lobbying materials.

    Reading Elliehausen’s writings, I think that he, and others like him, are the ones directly responsible for the crash of our economy.

  14. Jer

    JC,

    First, it’s really great to find someone on the other side who is willing to invest their time in attempting to get the facts rather than rely on the stereotypical rants I’m usually subjected to!

    The study reveals 2/3 of payday loan customers used them “on average once per month or less” the past 12 months.

    The study goes on, “even small expenses may cause financial problems and make emergencies a frequent event.” In such cases payday loans are expensive but still may be better than alternatives. Studies have found that access to payday loans may increase communities resiliency to financial difficulties, relax credit constraints without increasing delinquency, and reduce the incidence of financial problems.”

    I think of more relevance is this, “Nearly all payday loan customers evaluated their own experience with their most recent payday loan positively and believe payday loan companies provide a useful service.”

    Regarding the funding of this study, the researchers needed access to consumers who used the payday loan product. CFSA is made up of the biggest and the best payday loan companies that, among other things, insist on full disclosure of all fees, encourage consumer responsibility, no-cost rescind consumer rights, Fair Debt Collection Practices, no criminal action for NSF’s, support balanced regulation, extended consumer payment plans, Internet state licensing and much more.

    CFSA was one of many groups on both sides of the issue who helped to fund this study conducted by George Washington University.

    JC, page 36 states, “Just 2.3% of customers said they did not know the finance charge on their most recent new advance.” I have many credit cards. Please don’t ask me to quote the interest rates on them. I have a car loan. Again, I don’t know the interest rate. I even have trouble remembering the interest rate on my mortgage. Let’s be fair here!

    Page 55 states that Chapter 7 bankruptcies INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY in Georgia and North Carolina AFTER payday loans were banned in these two states. Additionally, in Hawaii where maximum payday loan limits were increased, complaints about collection behavior of debt collectors and lenders declined significantly relative to other states.

    Regarding, “Payday loans probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy” this is not exactly noteworthy. 33% own their own home with a mortgage. 75% have a credit card. Only 35% “had some college.” All these issues and the others discussed “probably hastened some petitioners’ decision to file for bankruptcy.”

    Page 45 states, 7.8% had loans of 14 or more weeks. You seem to have missed this, JC.

    Finally, “The survey evidence indicates that most customers used payday loans as a short-term source of financing. They used payday advances a small or moderate number of times during the year, typically for less than a month at a time.”

    JC, it is GREED that has caused our temporary financial problems. Greed by everyone including banks, wall street, realtors, brokers, mortgage companies, and US. Yes, you and me homeowner/investor who rode the real estate rocket up and are now riding it down.

    Thanks for your thoughts, JC! Most interesting!!

  15. Jer

    Problebear,

    I “dropped by” because I’m most interested in the rights and freedoms of Americans to choose how they want to live, what they want to buy, whether they can discipline their own children, how they want to vote, whether they want to smoke, can they maintain their right to a beer…

    I do not like others to have the right to reduce my choices!

    You still don’t get it! You cannot legislate our desires away. You do not know what’s best for all of us.

    As for “my fears”, again you are in error. I, and other free thinking Americans ALWAYS do well; in any environment.

    I NEVER expected to change any minds here, I’m certainly smarter than that. I simply enjoy exchanging ideas and learning from everyone, even the janitor.

    I’ll drop by again! It’s been fun :o)

  16. Jer

    Oh, I forgot! Those states you mentioned lacking payday loan stores… Do you really think the residents of those states no longer NEED short term financial help just because people like you, who think they know what’s best for all of us, legislated away the right to a payday loan?

    Those folks still need payday loans and those folks are still getting payday loans. They get them via the Internet from offshore operators who could care less about full disclosure, privacy protection, and licensing. And these payday loan offshore operators charge $30 -$40 per $100 loaned versus $10/$100 in Florida or $15/$100 in California.

    Finally, what percentage of those voting against the payday loan product even knew what a payday loan was? It wasn’t the payday loan consumers; the folks who sometimes need a payday loan. They didn’t vote against balanced payday loan regulation.

    Man, I FEEL GOOD!!! Thanks again, Problembear!

  17. jer- the only reason you dropped by tonight is someone in montana who is a member of your hellish circle of demons has expressed worry about the upcoming vote in the montana legislative chambers being affected by the disgust that all fair-minded montanans feel toward your industry.

    you have lost oregon, arizona, ohio, georgia, north carolina, new hampshire…..the list goes on to include the rest of the 15 states that your businesses have either lost in the legislature or through citizens initiatives. every vote is by at least 70 to 30 in favor of either abolishing your industry or capping the interest rates. someone is worried and that makes us happy. the more you comment the more worried those slime devils you represent must be.

    you make no mistake. if the republicans in our state legislature fail to do the right thing over this issue then we citizens will do exactly as the post above says with a citizens initiative and you will lose. there is no support from the public for preying on the working poor. none. but by all means keep posting. it tells me how desperate you all are.
    and that makes this bear very happy indeed.

  18. Jer

    Lizard,

    His name is Yunus. I read his book. Actually, although Grameen Bank originated in India he has sponsored some experimental loan facilities in New York and New Jersey.

    One of the interesting things he revealed in his book was that the women groups to whom he lent money paid the loan back at a MUCH HIGHER rate than the groups formed by men.

    Additionally, the increase in financial status achieved by the women debtors transferred immediately to the children in the form of immediate enrollment in school and improved nutrition.

    The few male debtor groups that succeeded typically spent their profits on themselves!

    Great book and a Great Read!!!

  19. Jer

    Thanks Problembear! Another insightful, illuminating comment.

    Personal attacks always make more sense than a discussion of ideas.

    We both want what’s best for, not only America, but the universe. We simply disagree about how to achieve it.

    You stink but I love ya, Man!

  20. Jer

    Wow! I think I detect an open mind here :o)

    Actually, I really honestly wish there was zero need for payday loans, car title loans, check cashers…

    But I know, having used one back in 1997, they do serve a need; hopefully a TEMPORARY need in anyone’s life.

    What I rail against is folks whose goal is to reduce my choices.

  21. Lizard

    Jer: if you are interested in learning about different models of loaning people money, you should check out the idea of micro-loans. A man from Bangladesh started a bank called Grameen Bank based on this concept, and won a Nobel Peace Prize.

  22. jer- elections are a tough thing to win when you’re the devil. keep posting. you look more evil with each comment.
    and more desperate….

  23. jer- anything you’d like to say about your industry targeting seniors and the disabled for their social security and disability checks?

    you do realize that obama has your slimy industry dead zero in his sights, right after scum-bag bank CEO’s and crooked bail-out execs. what are you going to do with your time when he lowers the boom on your little band of cockroaches….run to the bahamas???

    bet you will you big patriot you?

    how much money did you make ripping off our servicemen and women in the military before the pentagon outlawed your sleazy asses down to 36%???

    come on, you cowardly hypocritical sneak thief liar. tell us all about what a swell guy you are….

  24. Lizard

    I am impressed, Jer. You are arguing your case quite well. Maybe the question should be why the need exists for your industry’s products in the first place. Obscene greed, a growing class divide, blatantly inept oversight, stagnation of wages, off-shoring manufacturing capacity…

    Your industry, parasitic as it often is, exists for a reason. Maybe that line of inquiry is worth investigating further.

  25. Lizard

    problembear: don’t over-estimate the good intentions of the new president and his economic team.

  26. jer- it is the proper role of government to regulate business when it becomes (due to it’s own licentious greed) criminal in nature. 650% interest is criminal in nature and heinous. the choice to stay in business with a cap of 36% interest will still be available to honest business lenders including yours. the only choice which will be limited will be the choice to rob people with unconscionable rates.

    the states which passed this limit are doing just fine and honest business lenders are making a living helping the working poor. there is no moral or good reason for montana to continue to allow your clients to charge 650% interest.

    the choices you are so defensive about involve thievery of our most vulnerable people. when a three year old insists on playing with matches it is only prudent to take the matches away from him and to put them out of reach. some choices just cannot be allowable when the one doing the choices is too irresponsible to stop himself. that is the purpose for laws.

    the unbridled greed of your industry must and will be curbed in montana either by legislative means or by ballot initiative. all of your rambling, whining and temper tantrums will not thwart the will of decent minded folks in this state.

    i don’t know how nevada operates, (where you are writing this from) but montanans will step in because we will not allow our laws to be used to rob the poor any longer.

  27. lizard – your comments seem to be more aimed (as usual) toward your own nihilistic and overly pessimistic views and the ego-boosting dissemination of your thoughts.

    we on the other hand, are trying to defeat an industry with tens of millions of dollars to lobby our legislature to keep their immoral and bloated parasites feasting on our poor.

    if you would like to help in this noble cause you are more than welcome. if not i sure wish you would get your own damn blog instead of attaching yourself to my posts and getting in the way.

    when i am engaging a slime devil i suggest you go elsewhere with your advice. it is not welcome. it is distracting and annoying. my views about the obama changes i anticipate are my views. when i need more advice from you i will be sure and call you on the bat phone meanwhile, butt out because you appear to be sidling up to this guy and encouraging him.

  28. Lizard

    pbear, in my humble opinion, payday loans are institutions that reflect a larger problem, one that Obama’s economic team appear incapable of addressing because of their elbow-rubbing proximity to these greedy assholes at the top of the pyramid.

    I understand your passion in regard to this issue, but telling me to butt-out of a comment thread because my opinions don’t adhere to your noble crusade is pretty ridiculous.

    Also, sorry to respond to your enemy in a civil manor, seeing as how he was trying to make his case, civilly I might add. I am glad you are fighting the good fight against parasitic institutions that prey on vulnerable people, but in your blind rage you seem to forget not everyone in the payday loan industry are slime-devils.

  29. lizard- i understand you want to take the entire sandbox of the us government and tip it over so you can make it into the super idealistic nirvana of your dreams, but i live in a blue collar world, have blue collar instincts that distrust dreamers as people who tend to get in the way when there is work to do. so i hope you will forgive me if i just want to fix one problem at a time without interference. is that asking too much from you. wouldn’t a blog about worldwide economics or macro politics be more germaine to your meanderings.

    i’m just trying to use the materials at hand to nail this one sheet of drywall up so the wind and rain doesn’t continue to lash us (the poor) spare me the intricate blue prints you have envisioned for your castle in the sky.

  30. and no, not all humans who engage in this business are intrinsically evil- but the way they are fighting our efforts to give some relief to the working poor in montana is…

    and it would be nice if you could stop giving comfort and solace to the enemy here, so i don’t have to waste jet fuel and side-winders on you. i need them for the slime-devils.

  31. Lizard

    you want to take the entire sandbox of the us government and tip it over so you can make it into the super idealistic nirvana of your dreams, but i live in a blue collar world, have blue collar instincts that distrust dreamers as people who tend to get in the way when there is work to do

    wow. you may live in a blue-collar world, pbear, but you blog in a cyber-world where an exchange of ideas is supposedly the intent. is that the intent? do I now need blue collar credentials to respond to your posts? what kind of class bullshit is that?

    so, let’s summarize: while you speak for “the poor” I am either an idealistic dreamer living in a castle in the sky, or a nihilistic pessimist engaged in ego-boosting my thoughts.

    I’m confused. maybe taking out loans to purchase that fancy education was a waste of money.

    • very possibly so. the purpose of this post is to illuminate legislators that it would be in their and montana’s best interest to pass SB 397 and regulate pay day lenders and vehicle title loan lenders so that they will stop preying on our most vulnerable citizens. it is not to assuage the hurt feelings of someone who is flamed for getting in the way. so yes if you cannot understand that simple concept, perhaps so. meanwhile i hope you will excuse me while i ignore your comments from now on. there is work to do, and you keep getting in the way.

  32. Hello Guys!

    My name is Mo Cheng, and I am the President of Synaptic Database providing software for the payday loan industry. The debate you and Jer are getting into is pretty common! Especially within the confines of spectators looking within the industry. I think the under lying problem of misunderstanding our fees stem from the mass lack of knowledge of WHY our customers CHOOSE US. Our product exists in mass demand simply because of NSF Fees. Want to see numbers? I’ve posted the calculation at hand to SHOW why we’re still in business. Let me know what you think.

    First – Lets examine the APR formula from a payday lending perspective:

    APR = (charge/term) * 365

    What this formula does is basically break down the APR component to a daily figure, and then multiply it out to the year long figure for the APR calculation. Please note – this isn’t an amortization formula (that’s a lot more complicated). By using this example we can calculate a simple example:

    Principle: 100
    Interest: 20 dollars per hundred
    Term: bi weekly

    APR = (20/14) * 356 = 521%

    We all know these are pretty static numbers inside the industry. I would even venture to say these interest rates are a little high. Majority of your states have regulated payday loan charges to around the realms of 15 dollars per hundred. There’s only a handful of states out there that are unregulated and charge 20 dollars per hundred.

    Anyways.

    Lets take a look at an NSF/overdraft banking scenario. Through my years of working with payday loans and its customers, ive learned that MAJORITY of our customers come to us to avoid overdraft charges. Because overdraft charges tend to be charged on a per transaction basis, here is an example of what a typical customer would see if they overdraft 100 dollars from their bank.

    Amount Charge Balance
    20 0 0
    15 35 -50
    40 35 -125
    30 35 -190
    15 35 -240

    Totals:
    Overdraft Amount: 100
    NSF/Overdraft Charges: 140
    Balance: -240

    This is a REALISTIC example. I used to get customers who would overdraft 5 – 10 times on a single 100 dollar balance. Customers come to payday lenders because they’re figuring out that they are actually SAVING money with our loans. What would you rather pay to loan out a hundred dollars? 140 or 20? Its also safe to say that majority of the time, banks get their money bank in LESS than 2 weeks. A lot of banks charge a daily fee if your bank account is in the negative. With all that to think about, lets be CONSERVATIVE and say the bank gets their money back on the next paycheck, and lets forget about that daily negative balance charge. Here is what the APR formula would look like:

    APR = (140/14) * 356 = 3650%

    3650%!! And this is leaving out some HEAVY factors (the shorter term, the daily negative balance charges). If we calculate those figures in, we’d be looking at a figure somewhere closer to 10000%. Ladies and gentlemen, it is time to understand that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between the interest we charge, and the “overdraft charge” that banks send out to our customers. At the end of the day, both scenarios are exactly the same: interest on money loaned.

    The only difference is the price. 521% APR or 3650% APR? Banks boast that their interest rates are around 8% APR, but do our customers have access to them? Show me a bank that will hand out a loan at 8% APR to someone who has a credit score in the 400 – 500’s and ill show you Santa Claus. It won’t happen because its simply not profitable. The reality is banks boast about their 8% APR loan which are made ONLY available the rich (with perfect credit score), while secretly charging the middle to lower class customers more than 2000% on small loans.

    The fact is majority of society is in the middle class to lower class income bracket. Banks don’t make nearly as much in lending to the rich – APRs are low, because the probability of them paying back the bank is mostly guaranteed. Banks make MAJORITY of their money from NSF/Overdraft charges. In a society which lives mostly from paycheck to paycheck it is almost a sure thing that everyone will overdraft their bank accounts once or twice a year at minimum. But that is a whole other subject.

  33. HonestLender

    To Mr. Bear,
    I can appreciate your passion against payday lenders. The tirade I have just read reminds me of the Salem Witch hunts and we know how accurate they were. Please take that knowing it was given with a friendly smile. I have been in the retail banking industry as an installment loan manager in my past and have dealt with people in some pretty hard financial situations. I do remember a number of persons who only wanted to borrow a few hundred bucks to cover an immediate but pressing need but it was a service we did not offer. I actually approached my supervisors with an idea that would aid these persons. They said it wasn’t worth the time, the trouble nor the money. I argued valiantly in opposition but since they signed my paycheck, well, I was at a considerable disadvantage. Now I have moved on and have a mini-storage in California. My tenants are hardworking, down-to-earth folks that need my service for a variety of reasons. But when times get tough, they have to make a decision whether or not to keep their storage unit which brings another problem as to where are they going to store these belongings, a vicious circle. We were approached by a number of tenants to help them keep their storage unit during these hard times. I did the necessary and appropriate research, talked to most of the clients who had expressed interest in a payday advance outlet, gave them the results of my findings INCLUDING the range of interest rates and how it was computed and left it up to them to decide if it was something they really wanted. It was unanimous. They asked me to follow through with the necessary paper work. At this juncture, we offer cash advances or payday loans strictly governed by the State of California. Of all the people who look at the APR poster required to be prominently displayed and ask questions about the triple digit percentages, all have come to understand that the set fee for borrowing in California is 15% of the amount to be borrowed and the total loan, which includes the fee and the loan, cannot exceed $300 and that with an example of calculating Annual Percentage Rates shows that the only digit in the equation that causes the greatest effect is the length of the loan. If you haven’t seen the APR formula, Mr. Bear, I would recommend that you take a look at it and play with the numbers to see what I mean. Now, I offer a viable and necessary service to people at the most reasonable price I can and still make a little profit. I offer my tenants a discount on the fee because it’s the fair thing to do. My tenants could not be happier and more appreciative. As well, we offer credit counseling and make it clear that we are not certified counsellors yet do not encourage cash advance / payday loans if there is another alternative. We will not lend to anyone who walks in off the street. They have to qualify under MY criteria which is pretty darn conservative. The other factor that is explained to borrowers is that the money loaned to them is unsecured, which you as an obviously educated man would know, increases the risk and therefore creates the possibility of additional costs to secure repayment of the loan and help to offset any losses occurred from non-payment. No one leaves our office without all the facts as well as knowing that if they can find a cheaper solution to their need then do it. Borrowers also have a 24 hour rescinding period unlike buying a car where there is usually NO rescind period. You bought it, it’s yours. Granted, there are unscrupulous persons out there who couldn’t give a tinker’s damn about who they lend to but, for the majority of us “slimeys”, we care about our clients and care about how they are managing their finances and care if a cash advance / payday loan is the best solution. We don’t prey on anyone. The fact that there are so many payday loan outlets is because it is a fad. The economics of payday lending has intrinsic problems and I will bet you that in another 3 to 5 years that you will see less and less. Remember when you could find a McDonald’s or any other fast food restaurant on almost ever street corner? Not so anymore. There are very stringent controls placed on the industry by the states, Montana being no different. It’s the misinformation that permeates through web that makes the whole affair untruthful and heavily biased. Your dissertation is a classic example. Something sure has put a burr under your blanket and I sure would like to know what it is, if it could be given in complete honesty. The era of Puritanism is over by some 300 years. My suggestion to you, because I do respect your vigor and intensity, that you focus your admirable energy on the real enemy – federal and state legislatures. They are the real, uncontrolled bandits. They can vote themselves a raise right in the midst of a one our country’s worst financial crisis and not bat an eye. President Obama is asking for sacrifice from all of us but do the legislatures sacrifice? No. The federal legislature has one of the best “golden parachutes” I’ve seen and they have made no effort to “sacrifice”. Nor has the California legislature while facing a $42 billion shortfall. If those with the power do what they should be doing and that is watching out for the benefit of ALL Americans, not “earmarking or porking” for their own political salvation, maybe payday loan businesses wouldn’t be needed or be thriving. Don’t kill the messenger. To conclude, I give you a quote from Mark Eastman, superintendent of Oxford Hills School District in Maine, when the district was facing a $500,00 shortfall and through the sacrifice of his employees resolved the shortfall, “It’s better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.” Think about it, Mr. Bear. Which one are you doing?

  34. my grandfather used to say the more words they use to defend themselves the bigger the liar. you guys use a LOT of words. bet you talk real fast too.

    montana current payday laws allow you to charge 25.00 per 100.00 per two week period. That is 650% interest.
    there is no excuse for charging anyone 650% interest for any loan. period. it is greed beyond all reason. no excuse is good enough and no amount of words will ever convince any fair minded person that you are just trying to help the little guy. you two are the very definition of hypocrisy. your fakery and guile are doing you no good here.

    but i can understand that you are getting desperate. states are passing laws against you criminals left and right every year and you are losing ground in every citizen’s ballot initiative that you come up against by 70 to 30 percent margins. that is because the majority of americans recognize you are predators who prey on the most vulnerable of our working poor.montana is next in 2010. montana payday lender businesses can either adapt to a more fair rate of interest or die. their choice.

  35. HonestLender

    Hey, Mr. Bear – you’ve been doing all the talking. Check ALL your responses and then consider the concept of “defending themselves”. Have a nice day.

  36. received below e-mail from a very ignorant payday lender sycophant/lobbyist/slimedevil just a few minutes ago:

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 7:14 PM, wrote:

    Are you also going to try to ban alcohol because if you look at this fact maybe you would better serve your state, payday loans have never killed anybody maybe you should concentrate you legislative efforts towards an industry that’s actually killing Montanans not helping them!!

    Montana has high rate of deaths from alcohol related
    crashes 17,000
    By TED SULLIVAN, Chronicle Staff Writer
    Montana was one of the deadliest states in the country last year for
    fatalities stemming from alcohol-related crashes, according to a traffic safety
    advocacy group.
    The physician-led End Needless Death on Our Roadways group and
    the National Safety Council issued their annual list of the 15 deadliest
    American states and territories for impaired driving last week. To
    qualify, 41 percent or more of all traffic fatalities in a state must involve
    alcohol.
    Montana ranked third on the list,
    and it made the list for the second
    straight year.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    I might suggest you go back and read the bill anonymous slimedevil/lobbyist/mob hit man. nothing is banned in SB 397 except greed. it lowers the interest rate for your business from 650% to 36%. if you can’t read, please have satan do it for you. have a nice day in hell.

  37. klemz

    Jesus, bear.

  38. “my grandfather used to say the more words they use to defend themselves the bigger the liar. you guys use a LOT of words. bet you talk real fast too.”

    LoL.

    I think if we count up all the posts, Problembear has most likely spoken most of the words! By that logic, you shouldn’t have even written the blog!

    I appreciate your persistence but honestly you are not standing on a solid argument in the slightest manner. You say theres no reason why we should charge 650% APR – yet you ignore the fact that banks charge 2000% APR for NSF fees that I have carely laid out the calculations for.

    I’m sorry Problembear, but if you live in America and run a business you’re doing it for PROFIT. Ever seen how much we pay for our pharmaceuticals compared to other countries? What about the cost of health insurance? Or even the practices of some of the credit card agencies? If you want to stand up for the “small guy” write about those subjects – but don’t fuel a movement thats going to take their last source of credit away from them.

    Hypocrisy? Far from it. For every word of this blog you posted, I can show you 5 happy customers who KNOW the reason why they lend from us.

    Now what im wondering is if YOU are going to have a decent debate with me. Or are you going to regurgitate the same weathered and beaten down argument everyone else stands emptily behind?

  39. if you don’t like my opinions mo, you know what you can do? dissolve into the evil ooze you crept out of. when we pass our citizen’s initiative in 2010 you will get my answers. and as an extra bonus we plan on taking the seats of the republican legislators who help you this session. payday lending should be a real good vote generator for us.

    bears don’t argue with slime devils. they tend to get us all slimy. excuse me while i take a shower.

  40. Name calling? Is that what you’re argument is based off of? Now everything makes sense!

    1. You have absolutely no knowledge on this particular subject your “standing up” for.

    2. Ignore the valid arguments virtually everyone has given to you against your position.

    3. And when the arguments heat up, you resort to name calling.

    If I had to guess, I would say you’re a 14 year old boy! Anyone who things this movement is “for the people” needs to wake up and SMELL WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING.

    As far as you, Mr. Bear – Im going to discontinue this argument with you because you’re not even remotely challenging to debate with. Read up about both sides of the argument one day and ill talk to you! Otherwise, you’re just taking another persons opinion!

  41. i can smell a slime-devil all the way from california mo- have a nice day in hell and give a great big shout out to your dark lord for me when you get home….sleep tight and don’t let those pesky citizen’s ballot initiatives bite you and your supporters in the ass on the way out the door…

  42. Oh, such blunt ignorance! I love ya man!

  43. JC

    pbear… nothing like a lesson in comparative loansharkiness to make you want to just run the whole kit and kaboodle right out of town by a lynching mob.

  44. it’s like trying to shoo vultures away from the wounded…only the wounded are our working poor. and the payday lenders just can’t wait to sink their beaks into the hurting middle class during this depression. they are circling. i can’t wait to work for the removal of republican legislators who are helping them. 2010 can’t come soon enough for me. we need more independents to take those seats away from republicans so we can enact some common sense laws to protect people in this state from runaway predatory lending. HB 396 amd SB 397 should both be no-brainers. republican lawmakers are out of touch with many of their fellow republican constituents on this issue and with most of montana and america

  45. dan p

    Please get these guy declared illegal and put out of business for good! Organized crime will forever be in your debt moron.

  46. klemz

    I don’t personally think y’all are evil, but I wonder how you actually believe what you’re saying. You draw a comparison between payday loans and repeated NSF withdrawals. That’s kind of like saying we shouldn’t outlaw assault rifles because people can still kill one another with chainsaws. How many people intentionally overdraft for temporary expenses? Such a person needs financial counseling, not your services. There are plenty of other options short of payday loan storefronts just like someone can feed three children for less than $10 without going to McDonalds. Like fast food, your industry is simply the convenient option, supported almost entirely by poverty. That is the definition of predatory business practices.

    Also, you don’t have to be rich to secure a sub-8 APR loan. I have a credit card with a lower fixed rate than that and I’m by no means wealthy.

  47. Mike

    It is amazing how some people can’t see the need for this industry! I am the manager of a single location payday loan company in TN that is about to go under because people have lost jobs and can’t pay off the loans. Their checks are NSF and the owner is too kind-hearted to take them to court……………. where does that leave me???

    What about the hundreds of thousands of jobs that will be lost if this industry is regulated out of existence???
    What will that do to the economy??

    Mike

  48. Rick

    God love these people who KNOW what’s best for us all.
    From a purely personal basis, For some reason, I have an inherent problem with people who Know what is best for me, and do their best to limit and legislate my choices, and get real nasty when I don’t necessarily agree with them. Supply is the result of demand. This need, for additional monies, periodically hits even the most affluent. Tell Problembear to jump on the banking industry, their NSF and overdraft fees, and the educational system for failing to teach the REALITY of responsible money management in our secondary schools, and the consequences of bad choices in our own lives that mitigate problems.

    In the perfect world there would be no problems.

    I find it really interesting that these guys flex their muscles by wordsmithing…and belittling those who disagree. My response to Problembear….Sig Heil…mein Fuhrer !! Take a number…. and line up with the rest of those in the long line of people, pundits, legislators that want to take away my freedoms, and can ultimately pair up and have fun urinating on each other.

    Oh….forgive me for getting carried away.

  49. klemz

    The banking industry has it’s demons too, but we’re not talking about that right now. Banks have rules and standards that much of your clientèle cannot meet because of poor financial decisions they may have made. Don’t say you serve the working class because there are several working class folks present (myself included) who would never in ten lifetimes resort to suffering your unreasonable terms. We’re talking about the bona fide working poor here, make no mistake.

  50. “I don’t personally think y’all are evil, but I wonder how you actually believe what you’re saying. You draw a comparison between payday loans and repeated NSF withdrawals. That’s kind of like saying we shouldn’t outlaw assault rifles because people can still kill one another with chainsaws. How many people intentionally overdraft for temporary expenses? Such a person needs financial counseling, not your services. There are plenty of other options short of payday loan storefronts just like someone can feed three children for less than $10 without going to McDonalds. Like fast food, your industry is simply the convenient option, supported almost entirely by poverty. That is the definition of predatory business practices.

    Also, you don’t have to be rich to secure a sub-8 APR loan. I have a credit card with a lower fixed rate than that and I’m by no means wealthy.”

    I might have mis-communicated when I said prime rates were given out to the wealthy. What I mean was prime rates (affordable rates) are only given out to people who have perfect scores. Many of which are mostly weathly, or at least living better than paycheck to paycheck. If you honestly believe THERE IS a better credit source for the bottom bracket of FICO scores, stop talking and show me!

    You call our business predatory – but have you seen the customers we support? Our default rates usually range from 6% – 15%. Ask any bank willing to take that bet on that customer and give them a affordable rate (10% or lower) and they’ll laugh in your face.

    Great analogy by the way – it makes absolutely no sense when you actually understand the mechanics of the problem at hand. Let me give you a better analogy.

    If people were killing each other with assault rifles and chainsaws with the MASS MAJORITY being killed by chainsaws, the payday loan movement is saying “Hey, we don’t care about the chainsaws, but lets take care of the assault rifles”. I’m all for regulation – don’t get me wrong, but if your going to present this movement as for the people shouldn’t you take care of the ROOT problem? Seems like everyone is ignoring the root problem!

  51. a better analogy would be if a group of jackals (banks) were tearing at the flanks of our working poor once in awhile with bounce check fees, then let’s allow jaguars (payday/vehicletitle/predators) to eviscerate them. because that would be better for the jaguars.

  52. klemz

    I’m not ignoring the root of the problem, nor am I arguing for regulation of this industry. As a matter of point, I’m not even sold on this bill.

    I’m making the point that you guys are 100 percent predatory, and if you argue otherwise, then you’re also deluded. I understand who your clients are and, more importantly, why they’re in the situation that they’re in. Furthermore, your assertion that my metaphor characterizes the situation is based on the assumption that I employed it to advocate for loan control, when I simply wanted to illustrate that your weapon of choice is still capable of bleeding families to death.

    I’m willing to accept the fact that some of the loans you make go to pay an emergency room bill or two. Far more, I suspect, go toward meth or into a slot machine. The fact of the matter is you make money off people who live paycheck-to-paycheck, exacerbating the poverty problem and helping people ruin their lives and families. You are a predator. Whether or not Montana should regulate this form of predation is another matter.

  53. klemz

    Note: That should read “mischaracterizes the situation”

  54. “I’m willing to accept the fact that some of the loans you make go to pay an emergency room bill or two. Far more, I suspect, go toward meth or into a slot machine.”

    There is a saying out there: “Those who support war, have never been in a war.”

    You my friend like the millions out there, have never had the real world experience we’re speaking our points from. You’re a spectator looking in. Sure, you can watch basketball all season long, but don’t claim that you know what its like to be a pro basketball player!

    Unlike what the majority believe, payday loans help STABILIZE paycheck to paycheck income. If you loaned out your own private money out to your own set of happy customers, you would know. You would know that most of our customers have their budgets calculated down to the PENNY. They’re not the uneducated, unconscious people who don’t have enough intelligence to figure out that our product is expensive. In fact the exact opposite is true – majority of our customers have figured out that its less expensive to take out one of our loans, than to pay hundreds in NSF fees, and late charges on bills.

    If you serviced these people, you would know for yourself! But since you haven’t, you’re just like everyone else. You’re just taking another persons opinion. Formulation of your own opinion requires knowing both sides of the store intimately my friend!

  55. mo-nobody needs to take out a doctorate in payday lending to figure out that 650% interest is too much to charge any fellow human being. conversely, i don’t need to be michael jordan to understand how to read a scoreboard.

    it’s just common sense. you guys are lining your pockets with the blood, sweat and tears of working poor people. everybody understands why you are here. unbridled greed. it is government’s job to regulate usury rates because if we don’t regulate it, you guys would bleed us all to death. your rates will go down to 36% in 2010 because montanans have common sense.

  56. Hey Mr. Bear! I missed you.

    You are right Mr. Bear! You don’t need to be Micheal Jackson to read the score board. Unfortunately understanding the situation at hand requires more than the drunken gaze of the scoreboard you’re talking about.

    As we all know, supply is ALWAYS met with demand. I was out in Oregon with the July ’07 legislation hit, and it closed 98% of our industry in Oregon. So YOU TELL ME Mr. Bear – when you’re new legislation hits and it shuts down the payday industry there, where do you propose that our customers get the credit they need? Or are you going to just take away their last options and leave them high and dry just like the state of Oregon?

    YOU GIVE ME A VIABLE COUNTER SOLUTION AND ILL STAY AWAY FROM THIS BLOG FOREVER!

  57. banks are already working on it with the commerce dept and obama. they are eyeing 36% micro-loans with a small one time fee because they know people are going to need a hand up in this depression and there is no money to be made in big loans due to the slowdown and poor returns on low interest. banks are strapped right now and searching for a way to make decent returns. obama has already told them and credit card lenders that the onerous and sometimes shady late fees and check fees will be revisited. so they know that is probably not a good long term strategy.

    see, but you already know that mo or else you are a complete moron, which i am sure you are not. what i am sure of is you are is a complete liar. you know that it is a desperate footrace between you and banks and obama to keep your shady little scum-businesses alive. you know that it is only a matter of time before banks take over microloaning just like they have done all over the world. the difference is they will charge much less than you and still make a tidy sum for themselves.

    in fact, at the rate things are going in talks between banks and obama the free market might just do you rat bastards in anyway. i just want to make it law so we can be sure you don’t slither back out of the fissures from hell you came out of. montana needs to step up and protect it’s citizens from your predation.

    another way to look at it is with physics; anytime you remove something there is a vaccuum. and nature abhors a vaccuum-banks will fill the need. but it will be fair and it will be regulated to 36% maximum interest. you do not fill a need. you are parasites that destroy our working poor.

  58. Exactly what I had thought you would say! So your solution to your people after you take away their last options in credit is a PROMISE FOR REFORM??!! Promises in reform are exactly what they are – nothing but TALK.

    You show me ONE company, ONE service which lends it’s money out to below sub prime credit scores and makes “a tidy sum for themselves” at 36% APR and i’ll show you their path to bankruptcy. Show me a PHYSICAL PLACE I CAN WALK INTO TODAY and get that exact solution you’re talking about. You can’t! Because it doesn’t exist.

    Do you really thing banks are going to fill the gap? Let me ask you – WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO??!! They profit grossly off the NSF fee’s of the common folk, and its been estimated that 20% – 70% of their profits are based solely off NSF fees. The banks hate us because when we’re around, we cut into their profit margins!

    Do you seriously think banks are going put millions of dollars at risk, enter a new market, and create a new financial product to MAKE LESS MONEY than they currently are? I think the better question is – If you ran a business, would YOU spend more money to make less?

    Like I said before. All speculation and no experience. I was here in Oregon when I saw that same legislation buckle down on all my customers. In fact, i’m still friends with many of my old clients. I have real opinions from real experiences. You my friend do not. You have TV – that and a large serving of name calling. Thats all you’re good for.

    Don’t say you’re working for your people. You don’t deserve that title. And the working class definitely deserves a more articulate speaker than yourself.

  59. hit a nerve on that last comment did i there mo? you know as well as i do that your days are numbered here in montana and when montana is done, all over the U.S. you will have to load up that stack of twenties and your worthless software and head back to hell.

    your last comment sounded like you are beginning to lose your composure a little there, mo. better take it easy. life is short, and in your case, the afterlife accomodations are looking pretty bleak. wasn’t that jesus i remember who took the whip out on the money-changers? the only time he lost his temper as i recall. i would take a good hard look at changing those greedy ways of yours before it is too late.

  60. Aren’t you supposed to be putting a bill together for the good of all citizens right now? The only nerve struck was with you! :) Deep down you know you’re heading into battle with your pants off, armed with a water gun.

    If you really are for the people, i’d suggest exploring both sides of the argument and making a rational unbiased decision. But right now, all you’re doing is condemning us to hell and calling us “slimy devils”. Where’s the action?

    LoL.

  61. klemz

    So I have to be a usurer to understand the functions of usury? Well, there’s not much I can say to that, because I’m not going to head down to the Pov, hand out a fistful of $20 bills and expect anything back the next day except an empty bottle of Gray Goose. Now, if one of them had a shopping cart full of salvaged goods I could seize that.

    Yes… this plan is shaping up quite nicely.

    If not, I’ll see you in hell for unrelated reasons.

  62. our legislative effort is tabled in the senate but not dead yet in the house. the citizens petition to put this on a ballot is all ready to print but we’ve got time there mo, lots of time until may of 2010. the citizens ballot initiative will landslide. nobody likes you guys, mo. you know that. i’ve read the comments on your site about the other states.
    it will be the easiest CI i’ve ever worked on. looking forward to it in fact.

  63. gaf

    Well it sure must to be nice to be financially secure enough to not have to face the reality of falling short, to live in an area that is densely populated and the cost of living low. To have nothing better to do in you finally years than to dedicate you yourself to fighting a battle that has nothing to do with you other than misperception. Life is good for you, you don’t stress over paying a bill here and there, you got life all figured out, consider yourselves fortunate.. so when I fall short can I give you a call and get a short term loan?? as a matter of fact since you are so adamant in your crusade way don’t you just send me your phone number or better yet?? a debit card to you bank account… or you know what? you have this all figured out.. you could be the national hero and start a non profit organization with you personal funds that loans money to all of us that use these facilities at your recommended 36% interest. Than you could put all of the payday lenders out of business and continue to enjoy your retirement, our look for some other thing to focus all of your time you can’t find anything else to do with except stick your nose where it don’t belong..Thanks for your unsolicited concern though…

    • dear viewmaster-there is no way to enlighten anyone who is greedy and vile enough to support 650% interest predatory loans. so i will simply ignore it. your comments are ignorant. rambling and you make assertions which you cannot possibly substantiate. therefore your credibility is zero. it does brighten my day however because your comment tells me that the predatory payday lenders in this state are running scared. 2010 is not far away.

  64. You think the cost-of-living is low here? You got no idea what you are talking about. Missoula is damned expensive. Not only that, Montanans rank what? 48th in terms of median income.

    “Unsolicited concern”? You clearly have NO CLUE as to what you are talking about.

  65. Why Wait ’til Payday?

    Purple Payday offers fast (hellish interest rates) and simple (never-ending debt)Payday Loans. There’s no paperwork (end to our profits from your poverty) and no phone calls.(protection for you under current montana law)The application is completely online and we accept (skewer with our pitchforks) a greater percentage of applicants (victims) than any other Payday Lender (predatory lender)at the maximum rate of 650%

    So when you need money now but payday is a little too far away…call us so you can begin the cycle of debt that will never end…and you will become our slave for life…

    editor’s note: Mr. satan – sure hope you don’t mind that i edited your copy for you and diverted your link to hell. thanks for stopping by. pb

  66. JC

    Gabe Rodriguez:

    You’re free to comment on this issue here. But I’m not going to allow you to spamvertise your payday lending site here. So I’m removing your original post, and posting up the original with the spam deleted. And if you want to continue posting, you should remove your spamvertising link to your payday loan site.

    “Posted by: Gabe Rodriguez

    April 8, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Wow, ProblemBear I am astounded! I haven’t seen or heard of such blind, ignorant rage in YEARS!!

    Did you set this blog up intentionally to avoid use of the “SHIFT” or “CAPS” button, while making choices for the public based solely on who you deem to be “from hell” or “slimy”?

    So you really feel that you don’t need to know how to calculate an APR to shut down and industry and leave people jobless?

    It’s so funny to read the comments. You keep getting SLAYED by logic, calculations, intelligence and common sense, and you only resort to name-calling. If you actually THINK you are helping your “side” of the argument, you should think again. ANYONE without an opinion on the matter would surely read this whole rant and side with Payday Lenders for offering a product that there is a market for. Period. Your rants about hell and slime just prove that you haven’t done a bit of research into the topic. Thank you for supporting our industry, with your ignorance! -Gabe”

  67. Gabe Rodriguez

    Well, don’t put a URL field if you don’t want me to fill it in!!!

    I’m not SPAMvertising and you claim. I’m just showing that I am part of a legitimate business, and am un-afraid of representing my company. But as per usual, this redneck blog is more than happy to trample freedom of speech in order to sling mud at any opinion you oppose.

    Thanks again for helping our industry with your ignorance!! I’ve already sent this article to dozens of people who were “on the fence” about payday lending, and EVERY SINGLE ONE is FOR payday lending in Montana now, thanks to the fact that not one single person here could hack it with intelligent conversation or facts. The lenders here were constantly citing references, articles, figures, and official government studies while PROBLEMBEAR just called people “slimy”!! I’ve never seen a better way to convince people that payday lending is a fair practice, than to have them read the ignorant rants against us!! Not ONE single intelligent argument came from problembear.

    • JC

      Redneck??? Hahahahah. First we’re a bunch of liberal commies, then a bunch of democrat lackies, then a bunch of socialist redistriubionists. Now you want to call us rednecks?

      Get real.

      And yes, coming in with your name linked to a payday loan site is spamvertising. PArticularly when one of the major problems with blogs is spam injection by industries like yours that pay people (or use robots) to go out and create new user accounts and inject them with a bunch of registration spam, spam comments, link spam and spamvertising trackbacks like the one at the bottom of this comment list.

      No, Mr. Rodriguez, I don’t really care about what you have to say when you come here because you and your industry are scum, and use scumbag tactics all over the internet to propagate your falsehoods and predatory industry.

      • Gabe Rodriguez

        This is so hilarious! So you guys set up a blog in order to insult industries that you don’t agree with, but refuse to actually use logic, understanding, respect or conversation to do so. You guys really just sit back and “name call” which does exactly the opposite of what you intend to do here.

        Once again, I thank you all for your support of our industry. It’s great to have somewhere like this that I can refer people to, and they can see for themselves that Payday Loans are a reasonable product, that people want and need! Also, you demonstrate the fact that there really aren’t any valid arguments as to “why” Payday Loans should be banned anywhere, because you have no relevant info or statistics to prove so. You actually just admit defeat by saying… “I don’t really care about what you have to say when you come here because you and your industry are scum”.

        Thanks so much for supporting our industry, by demonstration the opposition’s ignorance and in-ability to articulate a valid argument or response.

        Oh, and by definition I did not SPAM by filling out my url. If you don’t want people to post their url, then remove the field. Oh, I’m sure you guys have a hard time operating wordpress… Let me know if you need any help with that! :)

  68. Gabe Rodriguez

    WOW!! Today alone, I sent 5 people the text from this post (as not to give your site ANY more traffic or hits!) and ALL OF THEM are now opponents of PDL regulation!! After seeing all of your name-calling, and avoidance of every issue, they all now see the value in Payday Loans, and that there is nothing wrong with our industry, other than mis-understanding the facts (such as the writers here). There were 5 people who yesterday, felt that Payday Loans stores should be shut down!

    Thanks for your ignorance! It really helps out our fight to raise awareness when you dodge every direct question and avoid doing ANY homework before reporting!!

    If even ONE person here opposed to our industry were capable of calculating an APR…. (TIP: It takes less than 5 minutes to learn, yet you still won’t do it!!)

    Cheers!

    • Gabe Rodriguez

      Yeah, we better look out for a guy in a bear costume spewing off classic lines such as “payday lenders are slimy”!

      I’m sure the people coming in to get a loan to fix their car to go back to work will care about your opinion. Bottom line is, unless you’re offering an alternative loan…. no one will care. Our product is simply needed and desired, and NO ONE seems to address that issue either here OR in the senate.

      And you can’t even find your own bear suit? Sad.

      • you sound worried gabe……you should be. voters and legislators from rhode island to hawaii are cleaning up your nasty spider webs which trap people in endless spirals of debt so you can suck them dry. there is also federal legislation pending soon. keep squealing so i can see your pain.

        i enjoy it.

  69. problembear

    watch out gabe…. better alert your slimy friends.

    problembear is coming to a sidwalk near you….

    http://problembear.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/1106/

  70. problembear

    watch out allen jones…. we’re coming to pay you a visit in montana….. http://www.responsiblelending.org/payday-lending/tools-resources/rachel-maddows-ironic-take-on-payday.html

    pay day lenders in montana beware … http://problembear.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/1106/

  71. problembear

    upon further investigation Montana Ballot initiative #25 to limit payday lenders interest rates to 36% is still active but it is not available yet to distribute as the secretary of state is still reviewing the document for legal sufficiency language.

    http://sos.mt.gov/elections/archives/2010s/2010/Ballot_Issues.asp

    more news on this will be sent out here as i learn more. direct action is still pending however so watch for the schedule soon.- pb

  72. Gabe Rodriguez

    So Problembear, how much is 36% APR on $100 for 2 weeks?

    Also, what options are you going to offer for short-term credit if PDL’s are eliminated?

  73. Gabe Rodriguez

    I’ll be worried when….

    1. You actually learn how to calculate an APR (because HELL must have froze over!)

    2. When you can AFFORD to rent your own Bear suit!

    3. If you ever became a real columnist. God help us all, if your awful reporting gets to more people.

    I’ve written some pretty great articles about our industry, if you’re ever interested in reading some researched material.

  74. loanshdw

    So all of you that are for this 36% interest cap…..what do you think will happen to the already struggling Montana economy if this is voted in? Do you realize how many people in this state will no longer have a job? Are you really suggesting that this is what we need in Montana?? Have you even considered that? There are over 800 employees of these companies that contribute to the communities in Montana everyday because they have a job! Please share your comments on that…I would be interested to hear them! And it is totally ridiculous to think we could all find a good job….we will need a payday loan to buy gas to job search! Payday lenders and title lenders and consumer lenders contribute to the economy everyday by providing money to be spent. When will you wake up and realize that people make their own choices? No one twisted their arm and made them get a loan….it is a choice! If you do not agree with the way someone runs their business then the solution is simple…dont shop there! Obviously thereis a huge need in this state for these type of loans! At least 80% of the people that borrow the money do not qualify for a credit card or bank loan….so where will they go to borrow money? So ya…great plan, add to the already high unemployment rate, take away decent jobs from hardworking Montanans, and make it harder for people to work through financial emergencies! Very smart indeed!

    • glad to see you weasels are worried. i think the further impoverishment of montana’s low wage earner families by predatory lenders such as yourselves is the last thing montana needs during a depression. you suck what little money they have left out of state.

      80% of montana’s payday lenders are owned by out of state companies. yours is a shameful and despicable business which preys on the hard working poor. you are leeches sucking the blood out of montana.

      I-126 will finally pull you blood-suckers out of our working poor. keep commenting here. it is good to see you are worried about this referendum. by the way, oregon passed this same law a few years ago. i see lots of loan companies making a fair living on 36% interest in that state. your arguments have no merit, of course, because you are paid by slime devils to spew their lies. the more you write here, the slimier you look.

      • loanshdw

        so once again, you didnt answer anything…just repeated the same bull again! You are saying that people are not responsible for themselves! what a load of crap!! guess we should close all the bars and casinos down too because people drink and gamble? whatever…you might not agree with what we do but who cares?? all u can do is call names…so be it, why bother posting on here when you wont even answer anything? its not even a debate just mudslinging

        • i don’t respond to slime, except to condemn. there is nothing to debate. you guys are vile, contemptible, greedy predators. you serve no purpose except to vacuum as much money as you can out of our poorest workers and to leave our families destitute.

          you prey on our citizens because our own state laws allow you to. we intend to change that. there is nothing to argue about.

          • Gabe Rodriguez

            You not really condemning anyone, you’re just making yourself look uneducated and unable to partake in a real debate. Perhaps you’ve forgotten, but this horrible excuse for a topic was posted by YOU, so perhaps you should be ready to provide some intelligent information/commentary, as opposed to name-calling while you try to figure out how on earth everyone else is able to start a sentence with a CAP. (Hint: Try your shift button!!)

  75. Gabe Rodriguez

    Hey problembear…. since you don’t know how to calculate an APR, I wrote an article which walks you through the process step by step, and even has pictures!! Now, you have the chance to actually EARN your harsh opinion of our industry, by educating yourself (at least a little bit!).

    So, remember that calling us “slimy” hasn’t done anything but make you look bad…. here’s your chance to step up to the plate and become a REAL opponent of our industry!! I hope you respect yourself enough to at least try, instead of ridiculous name-calling.

    http://www.aboutpaydayloan.com/2010/05/14/are-payday-loan-aprs-too-high/

    • your lies and corrupt business practices are nothing i would want to learn anything about. not interested in being your opponent gabe. i am interested in shutting you down because treating people like you do is not how americans/human beings should act toward one another.

      as i said before, your specious excuses for scalding people in boiling oil because they are poor and desperate fall on deaf ears here. and any convolutied logic you employ in justifying your reprehensible liveliehood does not interest us either.

      go sell evil somewhere else.

      • Gabe Rodriguez

        It’s not a LIE, it’s actually MATH. I didn’t figure out a way to screw with your calculator.

        Stop making excuses for yourself, and actually LEARN about the industry you want to shut down. Do you think opponents of gambling are able to keep casino’s out of their town without studying at least SOME facts? I’m not at all trying to convince you to come over to our so-called “evil” side, I’m just trying to get you to simply understand what an APR is. Why are you so scared? Did you have a hard time with math? I swear, it’s not that difficult. Stop making excuses, and BELIEVE in yourself in spite of any lack of education.

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    […] payday lenders beware; coming to a sidewalk near you… […]




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