freedom of choice v.s. best possible outcome v.s. common sense…


by problembear

if given the choice between freedom and making things perfect, i would have to choose freedom. i just don’t think we need to throw out common sense in order to preserve freedom. we should be able to agree that you don’t go around shooting people because you disagree with what they do for a vocation no matter how vehemently you disagree with legal abortions. 

we should also agree that hate speech in this country is getting out of hand when weak-minded old men shoot down a young father for the crime of being a security guard in a museum….

it would be well to remember that domestic violence has done more to damage and alter the course of american history than any war or outside terrorist act….the assassination of lincoln by a slavery supporting actor…the assassination of JFK….and the slaying of Martin Luther King by an unapologetic racist….

preserve freedom at all costs but let’s use some common sense before this  hysteria gets any more out of hand than it already has.   bad enough that we burn our young soldier’s lives and endless resources ostensibly “protecting” iraq and afghanistan while our country’s security is at stake. we need to make sure our domestic terrorist surveillance is stepped up and given at least as much priority as off shore terrorism. or better yet, let’s bring them home and give these seasoned soldiers a new job- start protecting our own citizens for a change

  1. Lizard

    we need to make sure our domestic terrorist surveillance is stepped up and given at least as much priority as off shore terrorism

    no, i don’t agree with that at all. stepping up domestic surveillance is not the answer. we’ve got plenty of that, and based on recent history, it hasn’t served us too well (9-11 was stoppable, and either incompetence or complicity is to blame)

    as much as i detest the extreme right and their violent tactics, turning tail and running to the feds to protect us is just stupid, because they don’t give a shit.

    and if you want to talk about terrorism, lets start with the pentagon, and move down from there. or our intelligence agencies, who pay poor pakistanis to chip “terrorist” targets so some dude with a joystick in nevada can remote kill a few bad guys and lots of “collateral damage.”

    honestly, i find it really unnerving that you can say given the choice between freedom and making things perfect, i would have to choose freedom and then go on to suggest more domestic surveillance is what we need.

  2. Be unnerved then. I call it common sense.

    • Lizard

      the federal response to terrorism is always draconian. with these last two incidents much has been said about the perps online activity. the response by the state will be to exert more control over online content.

      sure, preventing bad things from happening (making things perfect) would be great, but domestic surveillance is a slippery slope, and it is eroding more and more of that freedom you claim to choose.

      • klemz

        Bear, I hope somebody tells me this when I inevitably slip one day, but you’re buying into the commercial trade in fear. I’ll grant you that this makes for one of the more offensive domestic incidents in recent memory. Still, Lizard is right — wrong path.

        And outside of notable isolated occurrences, I don’t agree that hate speech is spiraling out of control. I think it’s getting better; our sensitivities have increased, (often) for the better.

      • Pogo Possum

        “. . . .turning tail and running to the feds to protect us is just stupid, because they don’t give a shit.”

        Just for clarification, is this the same fed that people suggest we go “running to” to manage our health care system?

        • Lizard

          pogo, the govt has our money, and i would prefer they use that money to do things that actually benefits a majority of people, like ensure health care for all citizens.

          instead the govt, your team and the other team, use govt to appropriate our money to enrich their donors. so yes, if the political realities were different, i’d suggest that it makes sense to expect our govt to be able to manage our health care system. as evidenced by recent events, it appears that won’t happen, because money has totally corrupted our public officials from being able to recognize the will of the majority of their constituents.

          the cowboy i assume you supported for the past 8 yrs did a truly amazing job of simultaneously expanding/pimping-out govt, and all you can do is haunt a local progressive blog pushing people’s buttons, offering nothing save agitation.

          so, please pogo, offer something substantive, or kindly shut the fuck up.

          • Easy Lizard…Pogo is entitled to his opinion, just as you are to yours…telling him to “kindly shut the ….” isn’t really the kind of environment I’m trying to nurture here.

            I’m kinda presuming Pogo is a he..if not, apologies to Pogo…

          • Lizard

            my apologies, pp, j-girl.

          • Pogo Possum

            No apologies necessary Lizard.

            This is a passionate issue and we have all been guilty of letting our fingers type faster than our brains can think at one time or another.

  3. Barry

    sure hope the doctor deaths force the GOP to back off the abortion-related turnout mechanism… the ballot initiative

  4. Mayor of Mayhem

    Pbear, I have to agree with Lizard on this one. Increasing domestic surveillance is a TERRIFYING prospect. The Bush administration already admits to tapping emails and phones that had nothing to do with securing your safety. The government is incapable of protecting us from everything, no matter how many rights we chuck in the process.

    • ok you guys convinced me….i over-reacted to the poor security guard getting killed by an avowed racist…”

      “those that would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.” paraphrase of ben franklin.

      bad bear- very ashamed.

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