Obama Coming to Bozeman

by jhwygirl

Cat’s out of the bag…way out of the bag and running down the road like its tail is on fire, so what the hell.

4&20 hears, via 3,000 emails, tweets and phone calls that Obama’s coming to Bozeman on August 14th, with his lovely wife Michelle, to attend a town hall meeting at an airport hanger and then head down to Big Sky to meet with (at least) Senators Max Baucus and Jon Tester for the weekend.

That’s all I got, but there it is.

  1. JC

    Hmmm… If it’s on Aug. 17th, the Whacko Bus Tour will be there, too. Sure would make for an entertaining road trip!

  2. goof houlihan

    What’s odd is that the truth IS under current plans that I will lose my health insurance. I didn’t know the truth was called “astroturfing”. problembear implied that I was a selfish apologist for having the temerity to want to keep the health insurance that has served me incredibly well through my sickness and my family’s various injuries and sicknesses, and that I’ve earned by working hard, and making choices about employment opportunities.

    Many Montanans will be in the same boat, forced to give up quality health care, their ability to choose providers and insurance options and other medical choices eliminated, and forced onto the federal government’s plan.

    • goof houlihan

      And I heard that the Bozeman PD is requesting log ins to social networking sites for a back ground check before you can attend the town hall style meeting at Belgrade.

    • Jay Stevens


      Got a link???

      These accusations are…well…out there. Got any evidence? Right now, as the House bill stands, the only way you’d have even access to a govt plan is if you’re unemployed, have no insurance, or work at a company with less than 20 employees.

      That is, the claim that people would HAVE to get the public option is…well…total bunkum.

      If Baucus’ Finance Committee bill is as reported, there’d be no public option even — tho’ it would result in some folks kicked off their employer-provided insurance.

      Bottom line is, where the h*ll are you hearing this stuff? Sounds like somebody’s playing you.

    • Goof- how do options being made available to the disadvantaged threaten your choice to keep your insurer?

      More option is more freedom from insurance parasites for most of us. Keep your I,me, my policy if you like it. Many of us have been victimized by those weasels. But you are free to choose. Why try to obstruct our choices?

      Is it politics?

      Hoping for reform fail will only earn the right more enmity and disgust

    • JC

      Astroturfing is when a bunch of paid lobbyists foment a bunch of right-wing ideologues to make the appearance of grassroots behavior.

      When lobbyists and health industry corporations/foundations charter busses and pay all the expenses for a group of whackos to run from townhall to townhall disrupting meetings, that is astroturfing.

    • Thomas Paine

      No one is going to be forced to give up his health insurance. That’s but one of the many lies the health insurance industry is fabricating in order to scare people into sticking with the status quo. Thanks for demonstrating the success of such lies.

      You say your health insurance is the result of your employment choices. That’s doesn’t seem bass-ackwards to you? Shouldn’t a person’s employment choices be a function of his skills and fit with his employer rather than how much health insurance he can get? What about being tied to a shitty job because he can’t risk leaving for something better? What about his employer raising his contribution every year? What about his employer canceling his coverage because it’s gotten just too damn expensive?

      Does your employer provide your car insurance? Your house insurance? Why should it provide your health insurance? And why should health insurance be a function of employment, especially in the post-industrial economy that gets rid of employees more quickly than out-of-date computers?

      But maybe I’m missing something. If you’re the CEO of a health insurance corporation pulling down millions each year because you’re successful at denying and canceling peoples’ coverage, then it makes sense to stick with what you’ve got. But if you’re not, then you’re a sucker for supporting the way things are now.

      • goof houlihan

        My employer does offer a couple of other insurance coverages, yes. No, receiving compensation for working seems entirely reasonable, and part of that compensation is health insurance, I get it. Should it be more portable, and should there be fewer state mandates on what has to be covered? Yes.

        Reading a post from Jay Stevens about “bunk” leads me to wonder when Conrad Burns will be indicted, as he reported already happened long ago. Jay’s credibility with this long time reader approaches absolute zero.

        Problembear’s argument, that since I have it, everybody should get some, could apply to my pension, my savings, my house, or, as Dr Zhivago learned, even my house. Whatever I’ve got, problembear thinks somebody else should have a right to. I just have to disagree, and uphold a more Lockean view of my exclusive right to the fruits of my physical and mental efforts.

        Here’s a link,


        to some easily understandable concepts that are not from the insurance company “lies” or anything else. It’s one of many, but it’s a quick read.

        Even the President has commented on the end of employer insurance.

        As Wulfgar recently said, “all those assholes out there telling me that I am not worthy to join their great crusade because I believe in choice? Well, they just piss me off.”

        Such a comment would not be made if choice were not being eradicated.

        • goof houlihan

          “The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the “qualified” policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we’ve already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, “keeping your own plan” has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you’ll get dumped into the exchange. As we’ll see, it could happen a lot earlier.”

        • Thomas Paine

          Considering your health insurance is subsidized by the American taxpayer, perhaps you’d like to either support all taxpayers getting health insurance (and driving down your costs in the process) or ending the welfare program you enjoy.

        • Duncan Idaho

          I love it when wingnuts post links to blatant propaganda like that Fortune magazine editorial. Sometimes I don’t have time to click through, but every time I do it’s an epic FAIL by the wingnut side. Anyone who hasn’t read it, please click on it and appreciate the quality of arguments on the status quo side of the health care reform debate.

          Goof, do you really think anyone would read that BS and fail to recognize the frantic spinning and lying? Let me distill the answer: how many people do you suppose would say that their own health insurance company would not do better in the presence of some additional competitive pressure? I think I’m like most Americans here: my current health insurance is marginally adequate, better than no insurance but not a particularly good deal; and if my company can’t compete with a public option, then I won’t shed a tear when they go under and I switch to another provider.

          • goof houlihan

            Ah yes, well, you offered no refute to the article’s contention that I would lose my health care, only insults and change of subject.

          • Goof, writing as one who has the same options as yourself, you should recognize the obvious. You will not lose your health care. You simply won’t. You may, at worst, lose your health care choice. Personally, I don’t read the bill that way. What I read is that insurance providers will have to offer equal coverage pursuant to specific rules to minimize costs. At no point does that say that you lose your benefits.

            What you will be offered is the same or better coverage for a cheaper price, unless your current provider can match that offer. You cannot be denied for so-called ‘pre-existing’ conditions, and they will have to keep rates in line with the larger pool of recipients in a public program.

            Taking away choice totally sucks. I have been and remain one of the first to say that. Saving money does not suck. But what is as clear as all get out is that you won’t lose coverage. You won’t.

          • raouwel

            No private insurance could compete against a public option that is just absurd.

        • Never reported Burns was indicted.

          You ought to cut out reading right-wing blogs. You’re obviously grossly misinformed.

          That, or you’re a malicious liar.

      • Finley

        I have to agree with you. Could the current state of health insurance get any worse? I mean really? Could it get worse? I am a professional with a bachelor’s degree and my health insurance for my family of 4 is costing me almost a quarter of my paycheck. It has doubled in the past 5 years. Yes, those were Republican years. I think any change at this point is refreshing. Now don’t get me started on the auto insurance companies that are really gouging the hard working, dependable people, who actually care enough to have insure their vehicles.

  3. Big Swede

    editor: That’s out of hand, Big Swede. ~~jhwygirl

    This post has been removed.

    • Big Swede


      • You’re in my living room. Show some basic boundaries of common courtesy.


        I’d do it in your den.

        • Big Swede

          Boundaries that apply equally?

          • Have I ever gone outside the boundaries of common courtesy towards you?

            When you are in your house, you say whatever in the hell you please. If I don’t like it, I’ll leave.

            Take a step back. Is this quarrel you are seeming to start really worth it?

          • goof houlihan

            I have to say, problembear’s post exceeds anything I’ve seen written by Swede. But it’s not my site, so I’m not the arbiter. However, I’m often intentionally insulted by problembear.

            I don’t think there’s any pretense of equality, though, Swede. It’s much like those here venturing over to Missoulapolis. There’s Max waiting with the insults. We are deep inside the lines.

          • goof houlihan

            “Wingnut,insurance parasite apologist, payday loan defender and now racist. It’s the trifecta…

            You win the idiot prize bs.”

            Swede, not equally.

          • Big Swede said something borderline racist.

            It wasn’t a name-calling incident – and he’s done that to others.

            I can’t – and won’t – babysit everyone here.

            Ya’all (and I use that term broadly) do these minor name-calling things all the time.

            I’d step in, and have, when that kind of stuff gets truly personal.

            Ever hear the House of Commons on Sunday night, CSPAN? “Wingnut,insurance parasite apologist, payday loan defender and now racist. It’s the trifecta…

            You win the idiot prize bs.” is mild compared to the stuff there.

            Look – you’re all (again, I use that term broadly) big grownups. problembear included. I WISH everyone’d be civil at least minimally to a level of which might be expected in normal common conversation, but Lord God Almighty, please see the distinction of someone making borderline racist comments about the President’s wife and me blocking them and problembear going House-of-Commons on Big Swede, who’s done the same in the past.

          • Big Swede

            Thanks goof.

            And jhwygirl, I tried to click on “this”, got nothing.

          • Big Swede

            And comparing the first lady to a fictional Star Wars Character is not racist.

            It was the unflattering picture that raised your ire.

            How many times was Bush portrayed as a chimp?

            Did you laugh at those images?

          • “this” referred to getting into a pissin’ match about THIS.

            Michelle is not president. Associating her with a chimp or ape or gorilla or whatever is borderline racist.

            I did laugh at the chimpman images, I admit…but I don’t see a correlation between attacking a president’s wife with a photo-shop pic and a photo-shop pic of the president that isn’t based on racist beliefs.

            It was based on his intelligence.

            Look – go ahead – have the last word, say whatever you want. I’m feeling extraordinarily mean tonight and I don’t intend to reflect that here at 4&20 tonight.

            Peace out my friend. I’m going to grab a beer out of the fridge. Accuse me of whatever – I’m an ass…I’m unfair…I only attack Republicans….I lie and put out false information. Whatever. Have your fun.

            {{the lady of the house leaves, slamming the door.}}

  4. Lizard

    what a worthless conversation. let’s just say it: fuck the poor for not being able to afford health care.

    • goof houlihan

      Not going your way, is it?

      • Lizard

        goof, this whole debate has devolved into i got mine, and fuck the rest of you, so no, it’s not going the way the majority of americans want it to go.

        if you cared about societal stability, maybe you would see the benefit in providing a modicum of health security to people, so they can have a better chance of being the productive citizens you want them to be.

        instead you just bitch and moan about people taking things from you, like a toddler who is scared the kid down the street is going to steal his toys if he’s allowed to play at the same playground.

        it’s pathetic. your party is pathetic. and if this issue isn’t resolved in a way that helps those tens of millions of uninsured, then the future trajectory of this entire country will be in jeopardy.

  5. I take my licks at electric city and dole out punishment accordingly without whining.

    You’re in my cave. Enter and attack at your semantic peril…

    Without whining.

  6. raouwel

    The biggest problem is they aren’t looking to just insure the millions of people that don’t have insurance. Not counting the people that don’t want it or just don’t want to purchase even thought they can afford to do so. They are looking at socializing the whole health care industry which would drastically reduce the quality of health care in the U.S. They have figured it would take somewhere close to 50 billion dollars to insure the uninsured. Also why in the world would they insure illegal immigrants if not just politics (for a few more votes). No one is opposed to insuring the needy and the uninsured. I just don’t want the worlds greatest nation with the best health care in the world going down such a horrid path. I don’t want to have you such a horrible health care system and i certainly don’t want to see the horrors my parents would go through because of such a big mistake, let alone my children. Don’t let them lie to you this isn’t about health care for the uninsured or that would be all the are trying to do. And on a final note there is big difference between the deserving poor and the self afflicted or non deserving poor something a federal government can never oversee, which is why they should let such programs be dealt with more locally.

    • problembear

      typical boilerplate lies from another teabagger….

      thanks for being so bad at communication there raouwel. we appreciate it.

      a besotted insurance industry thanks you for promulgating fear to stop reform.

      did it ever occur to you bunch of parrots that the public is sick of being ripped off by the private health insurers you defend?

      good god. go out and talk to some real people once in a while about their experiences with health care insurers. you have no support for the status quo out there. but of course if all you do is talk to each other and you get your talking points from the criminally insane right then you would have no way of knowing that. stay oblivious.

      • raouwel

        Why do you think the polls are the way they are people don’t want reform. Pretty simple don’t change something that isn’t broken all health insurance needs is competition. Who doesn’t agree that health insurance is to expensive, but that is no reason to tear the best health care system in the world to shreds. Fix the costs don’t lessen the quality by nationalizing it.

        • problembear

          ok raouwel, i am going to pretend for the sake of argument that you are not a paid operative for the status quoers…altho i have heard through the grapevine that with obama’s visit we can expect more of the mental diahrea exhibited above. let’s examine your treatise shall we?

          don’t change something that isn’t broken…

          really? a system which bankrupts folks and makes them lose their home is not broken?

          a system which denies claims and practices rescission to optimize profits for health insurers is not broken?

          a system in which some faceless nameless insurance adjuster can overrule your doctor and deny his opinion and your ability to obtain the care you need is not broken?

          a system where health insurance compainies can act with impunity because they are exempt from any legal action by you or your attorney if and when they cause injury or death to you or members of your family by denying such care….

          float some more crazy theories over here raouwel…i really want to hear them and shoot them down like the big fat ducks they are with my double barrel…..

          • raouwel

            You do realize in the current system you can still get a procedure if you like and appeal a denial. In a nationalized helath care system like canada you seem to be advocating you can not, if they say you don’t get a treatment becuase you are to old, to young, or any number or their reasons there is not but one single thing you can do about that.


            So if you would like to get rid of that choice for everyone in the world for the sake of fairness, but do realize you are going to sacrifice the quality of our health care for everyone in the process.

          • JC

            Tell me how you appeal a denial when a hospital won’t give you a procedure because you don’t have insurance??? Tell me that.

            Best care in the world? Maybe. But only to those who have access to health care–not the 50 million that don’t. To them, America’s system of health care is substandard, and 20,000 people a year die premature deaths because of lack of access to health care. And I’ll put the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of people like you who think the status quo is just fine.

            You’re just too dimwitted to realize that adding a public option to our health care system provides a choice for people who have been denied a choice.

            You just don’t realize that our current system has denied people of the choice to get health insurance. I have tried every carrier in the state of Montana and have been denied. I have no choices left.

            So take your rant and stuff it up your backside.

          • raouwel

            “You do realize in the current system you can still get a procedure if you like and appeal a denial.”

            Current system is health insurance you are talking about someting else entirely. Useing made up and inflated numbers to try and bully people into believeing that a marxist answer is the best and only way is just obsurd.

        • JC

          “all health insurance needs is competition”

          That’s what the public option is all about. Glad you recognize that.

          • raouwel

            Are you serious no private company can compete with the government. They are paying them (via taxes). What kind of compant can pay there competition and still survive. Answer me that.

          • JC

            UPS, FEDEX, Ford. All the electrical generators that compete against the BPA. SCHIP competes against all of the health insurers that offer policies for kids. They’re doing just fine. On and on.

            Private insurers still exist in Canada for those that want to supplement Medicare. They’re doing just fine.

            Your meme just doesn’t hold water. But keep spouting it if it makes you feel good. Just makes you look stupid here.

          • raouwel

            Who are the competing with?

    • Steve W

      You are a silly fibber.

      Shame on you.

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