Rising from GOP Ashes… the Conservative Party?

by JC

going rogue

It’s election day, and the thoughts on my mind, one year after Obama and democrats swept to victory and republicans went down in defeat, are thus:

Will the conservative uprising in elections back east amount to anything more than a squabble in the GOP, and progressive democrats will succeed in wresting control of their party from its moderate entrenchment?

Or has the republican party completely lost its ability to govern, and the return of the two party system will revolve around a centrist democrat/republican corporatism vs. a far right conservative ideology?

Alternatively, anybody feeling the love, àla hope and change?

  1. Due respect, JC, but you’re drawing a couple of false dichotomies. If you examine history, politics has rarely been an ‘either or’. Only once in our history has the political divide been so polarized as to cause a complete breakdown of a complex system into it’s simplest elements.

  2. My prediction: Steelers 27, Broncos 10. Now that took guts, right?

    Your statement above incomprehensible. I can make no sense of it. I think it’s headmush.

    Honest. I’m not kidding. I think it’s headmush.

    JC- I don’t see any changes in party structure on the horizon. The financing forces shift back and forth between them. People will tire of Democrats, and money will shift to Republicans again.

  3. problembear

    mark- you really need to get out more man!

  4. Big Swede

    I don’t get the cartoon.

    Shouldn’t Sarah be shooting the RINO instead of riding it?

  5. goof houlihan

    You won an election. Don’t buy off on your own press releases.

    I’m hoping to see a jh update on the municipal election.

    I was willing to predict the Bozeman races on her prediction post…but no prediction! Was it all settled with the Party endorsements, or what?

  6. Lizard

    the “conservative uprising” is a media construct legitimized by political wonks and pundits angling for ratings. and progressives? they appear to have been effectively marginalized by the “moderate entrenchment” following the corporate edicts of neoliberalism.

    instead of making fun of teabaggers and gnashing teeth over the latest vitriol spewed by that arrogant pig, rush, progressives should have been figuring out how to apply their own pressure in case obama failed to morph into the messiah people held him up to be.

    so far all the disappointments have been predictable, and the only group organized and motivated enough to exert actual pressure on the new administration have been the LGBT community.

    where are the antiwar groups? obama is more than likely going to escalate a disastrous war in support of a totally corrupt govt in afghanistan, karzai’s brother is on the payroll of the CIA, and we’re bombing a nuclear armed ally on a weekly basis.

    does that sound insane to anyone else?

    • That’s really insightful – not just that I agree with it, but the LGBT comment was one of those things that just hit me as obviously true when you said it, though it never occurred to me till you said it. They have managed to force his hand, no one else on the left has.

  7. Mark t

    I think most voters were fed up with Republicans by 2004, but there was immense election fraud that year, cementing Bush in for four more years without election validation. By ’08 resentment was overwhelming. But Democrats , given watershed disenchantment with health care, bangsters, tax cuts for the gentry, and of course war. are doing exactly nothing even given magnificent power to effect change.

    It’s as if they exist to bottle up progressive energy and make sure it doesn’t go anywhere.

  8. goof houlihan

    Did gay marriage lose in Maine? That’s a step backward, imo, but President Obama really helped the LGBT effort, right?

    I like the idea of a social liberal and fiscal conservative/libertarian center versus the two extremes of communism and establishmentarianism.

    Let’s hope that happens.

    And Mark, that massive voter fraud in 2004, it was all part of the 9/11 Bush attack on the WTC and the Bildenberger conspiracy, right? You learned about that during your visit to the Bohemian Grove? Get that foil hat out, we’re reading your mind.

    Did Dick Haines win? Despite everyone but McCain and Clinton showing up to support his opponent?

    • Goof – that kind of wave-of-the-hand dismissal is not encouraging – you are otherwise very bright. I’m familiar with the social pressures to adopt correct views regarding such things as election fraud. I should keep my gaze down and march in line. But something was up there. I saw it, I smelled it. If I talk about it, I expose myself to tin-foil hat comments like yours, which are easy to toss. That’s one mark against your otherwise admirable blog presence.

    • Lizard

      i’m equally disappointed with such a snide, obviously misinformed dismissal of significant voting irregularities in ohio. belittling a valid claim of voter fraud by using “foil hat” associations is weak. you’re better than that, goof.

      • Pogo Possum

        Speaking of “foil hats” and conspiracy theories, Lizard, aren’t you the one who thinks the CIA and Mossad were in on the 9/11 attacks?


        “. . . oh, and that precious real estate in manhattan where the towers once stood actually treated like a crime scene and vigorously investigated.” Lizard

        “. . . . the intelligence world is a dark, interrelated world with some surprising overlap. you would have to be pretty naive to think the attacks were a complete surprise to the CIA/ISI/Mossad factions. . . . ” Lizard

        • Lizard

          yes, how dare i remain skeptical about the role of our lovely intelligence agency in the domestic attack that provided the catalyst for two wars and the pre-packaged patriot act.

          meanwhile, you’ve got folks who believe in a secret socialist take-over by a kenyan non-citizen black muslim and a government agency (FEMA) preparing concentration camps for mass internment.

          and goof, the beauty of diebold is its machines don’t produce paper trails. the disparity between exit polls and results in democratic strongholds in ohio indicate there were serious irregularities that were never properly investigated.

          • goof houlihan

            Yes, I would have to believe a massive conspiracy of county clerk and recorders elected George Bush. What tin foil hat nonsense.

            Clerk and Recorders (or the Ohio election equivalent) have no skin in the national game. I’d have to believe that Vicky Zeier rigged the election of Barack Obama to buy off on these conspiracy theories.

            It didn’t happen.

      • goof houlihan

        Where’s the proof?

        • There is no proof. There is only evidence. Strong evidence.

          That is a Coobsian question. There is a path from suspicion to “proof” that requires a desire to know what is true. Little blog commenters can only wonder, and even littler ones can only make “tin hat” dismissals.

        • Lizard

          if you want to actually do some research, goof, i would start here

  9. Mark t

    Goof: you preach from a pulpit of ignorance and seem to take pride in it. That last comment showed me that you haven’t a clue how it might be done. You’ve got no skin in this argument.

  10. Pogo Possum

    Let me guess, Lizard and Mark T., do you think the CIA had a hand in the Kennedy assasination? Was there a second shooter?

    • Lizard

      it baffles me how mark mentioning suspected election fraud in 2004 has led to pogo demanding what we think about JFK’s assassination.

      maybe if the mockers here were a little more informed about the subject matter some of the violent attacks this nation has suffered and inflicted would make a little more sense to them, and they wouldn’t feel compelled to automatically discount provocative inquiry as foil hat craziness.

      though this isn’t the forum to really get into a prolonged discussion about the CIA, it might be helpful to look into the agency’s involvement in the drug trade. Gary Webb is a good place to start.

      the fact that the military has recently claimed that karzai’s brother has been on the CIA’s payroll, and that karzai’s brother is involved in the drug trade, should come as no surprise.

      i believe it pays to be curious about this world we live in, and that ignorance is dangerous, but if it makes you feel better, then ridicule away.

      • Don’t bother, Lizard – you can lead a horse to water. What I have learned over the years is that there are those who can see the emperor is naked, those who can’t, and nair the twain …

        Am I mixing metaphors?

        • Lizard

          yeah, fighting back the blinding tides of national amnesia may seem futile, but it’s worth it. conspiracies are not unusual events, but the term conspiracy theory has gathered so much wacky detritus around it, that it’s increasingly used to demean certain areas of speculation regarding the forces that shape our reality.

  11. See now, I don’t truck in these things very often because it opens the floor for half-wits like you, Pogo, to take random shots at people who have actually thought about these things.

    Yeah, man, you’re cool. You don’t buy into conspiracy theories. You’re mentally stable and understand that things are exactly as things are portrayed to you, and you’re way too sophisticated to question anything.

    Sorry about the half-wit comment. Fractions were never my strength. I don’t know the exact makeup of your wittedness. I could be shooting high.

  12. Pogo Possum

    Gee Mark…….why all the hostility.

    Every conspiracy believer (from both sides of the political spectrum) has a long list of web sights that show research and display proof of the alleged conspiracy, attacks nonbelievers as ignorant (or half wits), claims they have a greater awareness of how the real world works, and usually have a short list of other conspiracies the ignorant masses refuse to buy into. I have seen many on this sight rail against right of center conspiracy believers then turn around and proclaim their own conspiracies that are just as bizarre.

    So……to get back to my previous question……was there a second shooter? Inquiring minds want to know.

    P.S. Any updates on who shot JR?

    • It’s the ease with which yuo cast aspersions with so little background other than going to a coupel of web sites. You’re not knowledgeable.

      I’m aware that every conspiracy believer dot dot dot … what I don’t understand is why you pass of it as if it were de facto false without trying to place it in a larger setting. For instance, the 2004 elections were hosted by voting machines that were neither auditable or that left a paper trail, and the exit polls were screwy. As an accountant who has done a lot of auditing, what I can tell you is that if you leave a door open for someone, they will go through it. So for you, for instance, to say that because I think that there was election fraud in 2004 is “tin hat” type stuff on your end is not only condescending, but is truly ignorant. You really don’t know what you are talking about.

      Was it you or anon who said that all those country clerks would not get together and conspires … it is idiotic in that the whole point of paperless voting machines was to move the local authorities out of the picture, and turn the counting over to hgiher, centralized authorities.

      So, you know, don’t blast me as being either paranoid or susceptible to crazy theories without knowing a little of what you are taking about. What you are saying with your wave-of-the-hand dismissal is that you are the compliant type, afraid to step out of line.

      Regarding JFK, there’s been volumes written on it over the years. Certain people on the left wanted to make him a martyr, and claimed that he was killed by the CIA, and that he was trying to prevent the Vietnam War. But that’s false on it’s face, as he was stepping up troops and bombing Cambodia even as he said he was cutting back. Others have said that he was going to issue treasury bonds instead of Federal Reserve notes. Others have said that LBJ had a hand in it. None of these theories have held up.

      The only thing I have known over the yeaers for sure is one thing: Oswald and I have one thing in common – neither of us were in that book depository window that day.

      The thing I did, and what the CIA did it people do is make it out to be too important. It did not change hisotry. It did not change foreign policy. So it is just a murder mystery. And the theory I like right now is that it was Carlos Marcello that did it. I don’t have much evidence except this” He confessed to it while in prison, in front of an FBI agent who was posing as a prisoner.

      So anyway, call your names, be all I’m-too-sexy to believe in this stuff. You’re missing out on the real fun of politicis – that most of it is done in secret.

      • goof houlihan

        I’ve done a lot more during elections than “visit a few websites”. And Mr. Auditor, my experience gives me far more sufficient competent evidence than yours.

        • Montana has not had any problems – elections are clean, and exit polls have been dead on. Problems were elsewhere, in “swing” states.

          I don’t get why you presume to know things are OK when we have no evidence that things are OK> Why are you so trusting? Are you, like Pogo, the trusting sort who gets his opinions from authority figures?

          That really is the only difference – those who look to themselves for opinions, those who look to authority figures.

          • goof houlihan

            I don’t presume facts that aren’t in evidence. Didn’t you learn that on the CPA exam?

            Even the presidential elections are administered by people just like Charlotte, Paulette, and Vicki, all over the country. Decisions about what voting system to use, how to count, who will canvass the votes, etc, all made by the same people.

            Since my experience, personally collected, from Montana and three other states, including Florida, is that these hardworking row officers are similar in their concerns, their decision making, their evaluations, and their ethics, to the Clerk and Recorders I know in Montana, not just the ones who are personal friends, I’m going to say that, again, the idea that they all are part of some conspiracy is all just so much tin foil hat nonsense.

            Now, you may have personally audited, or maybe you’ve canvassed elections, as I have, but I doubt it. All you have to go on is the shit you read on the internet. Now, MR Auditor, who has the more sufficient, competent evidence?

  13. problembear

    mark’s been a little edgy lately pogo….i think it’s the water out his way. needs more whiskey.

  14. Pogo Possum

    Mark and Lizard………how I would love to sit down and discuss the JFK conspiracy theories with you two over a beer. I would be disagreeing and arguing with most of what you believe but it would still be fun.

    When I was in Dallas years ago, I stood on the “grassy knoll”, looked behind the wooden fence, paced off the distance from the Book Depository to the underpass and sat on the boxes looking out the window of the Depository (it would have been an easy shot). I even shot my first deer when I was a kid using a 6.5mm Italian Carcano rifle so I am very familiar with that weapon. I remember introducing one of the early conspiracy theory speakers at a campus event back in my college student government days in the 70’s. He got mad at me when I started asking some hard questions during the question and answer period.

    One more thought – I can’t resist asking this……….any opinion on “Area 51”?

    • Actually, I regard the opinion that Oswald did it as a little bit unsupportable, given the requirements for bullet behavior upon discharge, the sights being misaligned, and the fact that there was a tree between him and the President at the time. (It was later cut down.) If he was really in that window, he had a very clear shot as the car approached him from the turn. Instead, he waits until it turns left and goes behind a tree?

      I don’t regard your comments about tin hats as anything more than a compliant individual a sniper in the bushes popping off. It’s an easy thing to do, requires no particular intellectual abilities or factual knowledge, and it allows you to align yourself with respectable authority figures who say as much in public. You’re not worth much trouble, but do go to the link above where I write at some length about people like you who automatically beleive authority figures when crimes like the JFK Assassination are committed.

    • The link is to Piece of Mind, down below this post.

      • Pogo Possum

        Thanks Mark, I read it. Same kind of stuff contained on every conspiracy web site.

        PS. Why Oswald waited for the car to turn:
        I sat in the window and viewed the angles and visual obstructions. I have shot competitively for years. For technical and strategic reasons, it was a far easier and better planned shot to take with the car driving away than approaching. It also allowed multiple opportunities to fire with a more target rich environment. An inexperienced shooter would have taken the approaching shot. A trained rifleman (Oswald qualified as a Marksman & Sharpshooter in the Marines) would have waited for the downrange receding shot. I have duplicated the same shot sequence with an identical weapon.

        • You’re not credible. Expert marksmen could not duplicate Oswald’s supposed feat even after adjusting the site, which was misaligned. And he qualified as a “sharpshooter”with a score of 191, one above the minimum. His colleagues at that time laughed at his shooting ability, saying he had a lot of Maggies or something like that – complete misses.

          You didn’t mention the tree.

          That you duplicated the feat? Not very damned likely!

  15. Pogo Possum

    The tree???? It wasn’t a factor once the car cleared it around 88 yards downrange.

    You don’t have much real experience with rifles or shooting do you Mark? If that is true……then you appear to be the one who is not credible. I bet with a couple of hours of practice, I could have you making the same shot. It wasn’t that difficult. I have done it with the same weapons system.

    By the way……..what about Area 51? You never answered that one. What do you think…….Aliens or no aliens?

  16. Pogo Possum

    F. Y. I. – Numerous marksman have duplicated Oswald’s shots. You really need to start looking at some web sights other than just your conspiracy sites. You don’t want to come across sounding as narrow minded and crazy as those Birthers and Deathers you like to rail against now and again?

  17. One by one … god this is tiresome. See what I mean? It’s like you’re not allowed to have private thoughts – you get racked up by people who earn their creds by siding with official truth. What you are doing is easy, what I am doing is hard, and I don’t like it. I don’t like being ridiculed by jackasses. Got that? Listen to this “Area 51” shit and you hear a guy with a small dick making loud noises in a bar when he’s surrounded by his friends. Drive a Hummer by chance?

    The ‘feat’ has never been duplicated. Got it? No one has taken ‘his’ rifle, which was a piece of shit with misaligned sites, and duplicated the feat. Others have performed similar shots – real marksmen, with different weaponry. What does that mean?(It proves nothing.)

    Over the past 46 years, we’ve learned so much. There was every reason to cover it up, to provide you nimrods with a patsy. What is hard to explain is why, all these years later, they don’t come clean. JFK was the victim of a perfect storm, and because of Castro, because of the mob, because of the Russians, because there was supposed ot be an invasion of Cuba around that time, they had to cover it all up. They had to. They feared World War III on their hands.

    JFK was no saint, Vietnam was just starting and no one knew what the future held there.The CIA didn’t kill him. Hoover didn’t kill him. LBJ didn’t kill him. Earl Warren was caught in cross currents, Arlen Specter was earning his stripes. Jack Ruby did his job (about the only one who did). Bobby didn’t believe Oswald did it (he commissioned his own private investigation), LBJ didn’t, I doubt anyone on the Warren Commission did. They were just doing what they thought was their patriotic duty. Carlos Marcello confessed. He didn’t know he was talking to a wired FBI agent. He thought it was just another inmate in prison. He said yeah, he had it done, that he’d wished he had killed the son of a bitch himself. He hated Bobby, and decided the best way to handle his problems with the Kennedy’s was to cut off the head instead of the tale. And because he knew about the Cuba plans, he knew about Oswald and others like him -the so-called “defectors” … who seemed to leave and enter the country with ease …

    Goof – you’re no more credible than anyone else. It’s the machines, stupid, the machines. They are the key. They were corruptible. Local personnel didn’t matter. In Ohio in 2004 all of the votes were rerouted through Tennessee, to a company connected with the White House in other ways.

    Just stop and think how thick you are – you are saying that a system that is not auditablle, that leaves no trail, and with which exit polls disagreed, is credible, that we should all jsut act stupid and pretend everything is cool. And I have a problem? Frankly, you’re not using your bean. Not at all.

    I know what’s going on here. You all want to believe in the things you believe in. More is at stake than mere evidence – it’s faith. Your country, your government, let you down. Nothing is as you were taught in school.

    Grow up.

  18. Pogo Possum

    Mark……Please stop avoiding the question. You are starting to make me think you are part of some grand conspiracy here.

    Its a simple question.

    Aliens or no Aliens in Area 51?

    • Lizard

      do you believe moses and pharaoh played a magic game with each other, that jesus is the son of god born from a virgin womb, or in the free market?

      lot’s of people believe lots of silly things, pogo. but one side of this conversation right now is at least providing some interesting content, while the other side (yours) is just stupidly sneering.

      it’s boring, really. got anything better?

    • Good question … Pogo – c’mon – why are you avoiding the question? C’mon – Moses and pharaoh – magic game? Virgin birth? Guy rising from the dead?

      It’s a simple question.

      • goof houlihan

        Hell, I’ll answer it. “No”. Not area 51. Not “the machines”. Not anyone but Oswald. Not Gaia, not Jesus, not Mohammed, Moses, or Buddha. Not the upcoming ice age or the late great planet earth of the 70s. Not turtles all the way down. No mind body dualism. Not Hollywood or Ivy league. Not communism, socialism, or collectivism. Not Ayn Rand either.

        I’m not gonna take it, never did and never will.

        Individual freedom and responsibility, yes. Bursting the shackles of superstition and ignorance, yes. Self interested charity, yes. Hard headed pragmatism, hard work, love of family and friends and learning and effort, yes.

        Knowing what I’m doing and doing what I’m knowing, yes. Old school, yes. New age, no.

        Any questions?

  19. Lizard

    hardcore conspiracy theorists who become totally convinced that an all-encompassing conspiracy led by an all-powerful elite are basically just replacing god with groups like the freemasons and the illuminati.

    in a dangerous, chaotic world, conspiracists and religious folk alike tend to cling to world views that explain the unexplainable, because it provides them with a modicum of comfort.

    that said, the combined effect of wealth accumulation and the rapid expansion of technology has changed the playing field for what can be achieved, and the stakes are high.

    that natural resources will continue to shrink as the global population continues to grow is no conspiracy, and you better believe the fight to secure those dwindling natural resources will result in all sorts of back-room conspiring by those individuals and institutions in the position to do so.

    • You make a valid point. There are those who seek to simplify the world by creating powerful, mysterious secret cabals that operate behind the scenes, and in which membership is secret and people act out elaborate plans. It serves to reduce the world to understandable terms.

      There are people who believe in ghosts and virgin births, miracles and people who walk on water and rise from the dead. People see faces in cheese sandwiches, have invisible secret friends and chase flying saucers. These are often honest people who simply don’t think much. Sometimes they are loony tunes.

      Strict adherence to official truth is a similar strategy in that it removes the burden of thought. Saying that we were told the truth by the government and that’s that – it’s a warm and cozy way of dealing with a very troubling crime, a very complex world without lines! In real life there is not good/evil. It’s gray gray gray, and that troubles many people.

      It’s very complex out there, and power accumulates in various places, ebbs and flows. Power always protects itself, laws or no laws. Governments are engaged in all sorts of activities that are kept secret, often for good reason, but usually because some sort of criminal activity is involved. Often the secrecy itself is the problem. In the case of the Kennedy affair, the secrecy has spawned a whole industry that has filled in the blanks with sinister plots and plans.

      It was a murder, plain and simple. Solving the murder in public would have exposed many government activities, some illegal, some merely embarrassing, but most involving this thing called “national security”, which can mean anything they want it to mean. There would have been embarrassment – of the the CIA, the Kennedy’s themselves. Government and mobsters were working as one to bring down Castro. A high level decision was made to cover it up, provide the public with a patsy, destroy evidence, manufacture evidence. Bobby himself participated in the cover-up.

      The most important element of the cover-up was credibility the emperor’s clothing. People had to believe in their government. In 1963, they did, and that should have ended the matter. But leaks slowly appeared, the foundation eventually crumbled.

      When I get into debates like this, it is tempting to trot out all that has been discovered, and lay it out for inspection. But the people on the other side won’t pay attention, don’t want the information. If they did, it’s readily and easily available, and they would find out about it.

      So what we are dealing with is kind of a religious faith in authority – that’s all. Pogo, Goof are operating on a foundation of faith – just as religious believers studiously avoid anything that might undermine their faith, so too have these folks avoided the massive body of evidence that has accumulated over the last 46 years.

      The strategy of lumping inquisitive minds together with people who believe in flying saucers and Illuminati-type groups is often effective in driving nagging doubts about official truth underground. None of us like to be ridiculed. Goof, pogo, your method of argumentation here is sad and cowardly, and you are fools hiding behind the curtain of official truth, afraid to know things. Why so scared?

      Bill Maher made a very funny movie called “Religulous”, and I remember one line very clearly. It was a Catholic priest, a very down-to-earth guy, and Bill asked him about why they carry on with all of the talk of impossible events and stuff. He said “Well, the people need their miracles.” Sheep, and sheepherders who really care for the sheep. Nothing evil going on. But some of us are not good sheep. That’s all.

  20. Lizard

    support counterpunch!. here’s a snip from paul craig roberts latest:

    Obama is already set on the course to a one-term presidency. He promised change, but has delivered none. His health care bill is held hostage by the private insurance companies seeking greater profits. The most likely outcome will be cuts in Medicare and Medicaid in order to help fund wars that enrich the military/security complex and the many companies created by privatizing services that the military once provided for itself at far lower costs. It would be interesting to know the percentage of the $700+ billion “defense” spending that goes to private companies. In American “capitalism,” an amazing amount of taxpayers’ earnings go to private firms via the government. Yet, Republicans scream about “socializing” health care.

    yikes, conspiring corporations siphoning our taxes through a continued government fire sale of its responsibility to its citizens.

  21. goof houlihan

    Mark writes: “Goof, pogo, your method of argumentation here is sad and cowardly, and you are fools hiding behind the curtain of official truth, afraid to know things. Why so scared?”

    Pascal’s wager from a conspiracy believer.

    Why so gullible, Mark? The answer to your wager is, I’ve got to lose my rational self to believe your nonsense. It’s not worth it.

    • Ha! Here’s the problem with Pascal’s wager: He constructs it in such a way that the odds of God (as we created him) existing are 50-50. Would you make the wager if the odds were more realistic … say .001 to 99.999? It’s a fool that sits on the.001 side of that wager.

      As I said, there are mountains of evidence out there that creates mountains of doubt in rational minds. Steer clear if you don’t want a troubled soul.

  22. Pogo Possum

    ”Pogo, Goof are operating on a foundation of faith “ Mark T.

    Actually, Mark and Lizard, Goof and I are operating on a foundation of knowledge and experience. It is you two who are operating from ignorance and faith in your conspiracy web sites.

    I have 40 years of shooting, ballistics and weapons training, have duplicated Oswald’s shot with an identical rifle, scope and ammunition, and have visited the Dallas Book Depository. I doubt either of you have any similar knowledge other than what you have read off some conspiracy web site. Both Goof and I have years of experience working with County Clerk and Recorders, elections officials, and being official observers in county elections.

    I doubt either of you have similar experience.

  23. Pogo Possum

    As much as I am enjoy the conversation, gentlemen, I need to head out of town soon and will be away from the computer for a few days. It has definitely been enlightening.

    Before I go, I would just like to summarize what I have learned here:

    1. Mark T. gave us one of the best lines of the year:
    “Its the machines stupid the machines.” Great line. Someone has to incorporate this into a movie.

    2. Lizard gave us an excellent summary of Mark and his conspiracy theory beliefs. “Lots of people believe lots of silly things.” Another great line. I love it.

    3. Mark T and Lizard have a tendency to call people names who disagree with them. “. . . a guy with a small dick making loud noises in a bar.” Gee Mark, we hardly know each other.

    4. Mark and Lizard appear to equate religious beliefs with conspiracies. Interesting.

    5. Mark T. and Lizard think a small conservative minority such as the Birthers who believe in a conspiracy are a bit crazy because, well, they believe in conspiracies. (I don’t agree with the Birthers either but I don’t think they are necessarily crazy or whackos. I think they are just more like Mark and Lizard).

    6. Mark and Lizard are devoted conspiracy believer themselves (they even run their own conspiracy web sites)
    • 2004 Election Conspiracy – Yes
    • JFK Assassination Conspiracy – Yes
    • Area 51 & Aliens??? – (Possibly, not certain about that one)

    7. While many of the liberals that frequent this site, like Mark and Lizard, have a tendency to drag up a small handful of Birther conspiracy believers to marginalize any Republican message they hear, these same liberals appear to have a lot of conspiracy advocates of their own.

    8. Finally, Mark T. and Lizard still refuse to tell us if there are aliens in Area 51 leading me to believe they just might be part of a grand conspiracy.

    Since the two of you are regular contributors to this blog, I will give you gentlemen the final words.

    Enjoy the weekend.

  24. JC

    Sorry guys, I’m going to close this thread. But do not despair, I have created a whole new one for you to carry on this conversation!

  1. 1 Conspiracy theories « Piece Of Mind

    […] 6, 2009 Blogging can indeed be fun. A post by JC this week over at 4&20 devolved into a firefight about conspiracies and “conspiracy theorists”. I believe in […]

  2. 2 And now for Something Completely Different… « 4&20 blackbirds

    […] perseverance and diligence shown by goof, lizard, Mark T. and PogoPossum last week on my thread the rise of the conservative party. Have at it boys! And if anybody else has something they’d like to gab about, this thread is […]

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