Dispelling Myths on the Anti-Discrimination Ordinance

by jhwygirl

The Missoulian and Keila Szpaller have been doing a great job of covering the city’s proposed anti-discrimination ordinance since it’s very inception. Today I noticed a story Myths and facts of Missoula’s proposed anti-discrimination ordinance, which takes down, amongst them, the whole “bathroom issue” craziness.

Keith McHenry writes writes an especially direct letter addressing the “bathroom issue” which really should embarass those who think that an ordinance is going to cause kids or women or people in general to be attacked in public restrooms.

As Szpaller points out in the Missoulian – there currently is no law in place preventing women from using mens bathrooms and vise-versa.

Frankly, this over-obsession with sex amongst these pro-discrimination people is a little creepy, if you ask me.

Wanna check out the reality these people create? The city website posts city council’s email, and you can read letters that came in through Thursday.

For really really offensive, start with one councilperson’s exchange with a Bob Pond, of unknown local, who begins with a crude picture of a moose and a statue. That email series is at 04/07/10 11:15:47 P.M.

If anything makes me sad about this ordinance it is that there is such a loud ugly group of people opposed to treating everyone equally. That this loud ugly group of people is willing to spread lies and fear – that they are advocating for the right to treat a particular group of people, based on perception in some cases, differently.

City council takes up the anti-discrimination ordinance Monday night. The meeting starts at 7 p.m.

In addition, Missoula will celebrate its first Diversity Day, beginning at 6 p.m. down at Caras Park. Here’s the scoop, from their Facebook page:

NCBI Respect Club students designate April 12 as Missoula’s 1st Annual Diversity Day! Join us at Caras Park April 12 at 6pm to celebrate and bring awareness to Missoula’s unique and diverse community. Rally will feature youth and community speakers & Mayor John Engen will make an official proclamation. Join our parade to the City Council Chambers where our city officials will be voting on the non-discrimination ordinance. One 7th grader from Meadow Hill said: “I want a diversity day because being different is important. Diversity Day could help bring our community together, and we all need to be recognized.” The students hope that the Diversity Day celebration will be a new Missoula tradition that will continue for years to come.

  1. Edith Hamilton's Brother

    Myth: The proposal will force church leaders to marry gay couples against the church’s will.

    Yeah, that one seems like a strawman since marriage is addressed in state law. Instead, how about addressing this: the law will force church leaders to hire a gay or transsexual as day care director, minister, or administrator in their church?

    • JC

      And how is that different than the law “forcing” church leaders to hire a black or an Indian?

      You have a problem with gay or transsexual people working as day care directors?

      I think that the behavior of “celibate” priests poses a greater threat to our children.

      • Edith Hamilton's Brother

        And how is that different than the law “forcing” church leaders to hire a black or an Indian?

        Well, simply put, I don’t know that any churches think being a black or an Indian is a sin.

        You have a problem with gay or transsexual people working as day care directors?

        Where did you get that idea? I asked a question about the new ordinance. Do you think churches who believe homosexuality is a sin, have a problem hiring homosexuals as day care directors? If so, would you force them to hire an otherwise qualified director who was gay, or if they refused, would you harass them until they moved out of Missoula?

        I think that the behavior of “celibate” priests poses a greater threat to our children.

        For this discussion, that’s another red herring like the “marriage myth”. I think the daylight sky is blue.

      • Edith Hamilton's Brother

        “The draft ordinance prohibits discrimination in “public accommodations” and defines those places as inns, restaurants, hotels, bathrooms, theaters, swimming pools, hospitals, ice cream parlors and other public places.”

        So, here’s the question asked a little differently. Are churches and the related businesses they operate, “other public places”? Does the ordinance apply to them?

        • problembear

          no church worthy of calling itself a church should practice discrimination.

          world church of the creator comes to mind when looking for bad examples


          • Edith Hamilton's Brother

            We already had this discussion last night. Almost all churches practice discrimination, along the lines of “whosoever believeth” is saved, sort of the chosen 144,000, or the faithful, or whatever the catechism, and the rest are evildoers and blasphemers and going hell or sheol or whatever.

            So, besides being the arbiter of all churches, PontiffBear, what else ya got?

            • problembear

              i know of no reputable church that would turn anyone away except fringe racist and hater churches which base their religious beliefs on hate and fear rather than love.

              you may think you are the majority brother, but yours is an evil and unchristlike form of religion more along the lines of nazi teachings which thankfully appeals to only a tiny segment of the population.

              most churches preach inclusion and forgiveness rather than prejudiced exclusion.

              • Edith Hamilton's Brother

                You’re right in that mine is an “unchristlike” form of religion, and since I profess none here or anywhere publicly, I can’t for a second imagine how it is you determined my religion from my posts. It is no one’s business, my religion; I don’t ask and I don’t tell.

                Also, nowhere have I posted what it is I think about the issue, or my attitudes towards the ordinance. What I’ve done is ask a question, which you’ve used to attack me, (and my religious beliefs, about which you are clueless), and you sloppily toss around the most meaningless non-sequiturs to the point where I am convinced you are incapable of a rational discussion. It isn’t the first time I’ve reached that conclusion, and iirc you’ve taken a time out or two for just that reason.

                All religions are by nature discriminatory, as I posted above. You believe and belong, or you don’t.

              • Christ turned away no-one. Any church worthy of the name does likewise.

                He only lost his temper with hypocrites.

  2. problembear

    the law does not force you to hire anyone. it simply says that it is illegal to discriminate. the most qualified applicant for any job, apartment etc is given an equal chance regardless of the color of their skin, their chosen lifestyle or their religion.

  3. Personally, I’d be more worried about grandpa as day care director than a gay or transgendered, but hey – that’s me.

  4. Edith Hamilton's Brother

    Okay, I’ll draw the line a little finer, just for you, PB, since you’re uncomfortable my shorthand generality. Would the law prohibit a church who believed homosexuality was a sin and an evil, from discriminating against the hiring of a qualified gay or transgendered administrator, bookkeeper, child care worker in their day care, or clerk? Should a church with such a belief even be allowed in Missoula?

    As for who I’d be worried about, jh, well, those who feel so guilty about “sin” that they hate themselves would be my first concern. But I digress.

    The “marriage” “issue was a red herring designed to answer a non question. The “restroom” issue was just stupid. But my question remains unanswered.

    • problembear

      no-one should discriminate against anyone who is qualified for a position because they believe or live differently. how they might be qualified to do the job they are hired to do is what should guide the hiring.

      i believe that jesus would never discriminate against anyone based on their beliefs or lifestyles. did he not choose his apostles from amongst gamblers, tax collectors and all manner of sinners himself? we are all sinners brother. discrimination is the opposite of the teachings of jesus christ.

      • Edith Hamilton's Brother

        jesus whipped the moneychangers. Unbelievers spend eternity in a lake of everlastin fire. Jesus said a rich man could never enter the kingdom of heaven. That’s some serious discrimination.

        What about the question about the proposed law?

        • problembear

          “Would the law prohibit a church who believed homosexuality was a sin and an evil, from discriminating against the hiring of a qualified gay or transgendered administrator, bookkeeper, child care worker in their day care, or clerk?”

          yes. and i already explained below why.

          “Should a church with such a belief even be allowed in Missoula?”

          of course. beliefs should not allow anyone to discriminate against anyone else or any church.

          as to your statement that jesus discriminated against the rich. he didn’t. jesus punished hypocrites who used his church for profit. just as many evangelical churches do now.

  5. Edith Hamilton's Brother

    Oh, and would you, pb, discriminate by not hiring an otherwise qualified person whose religious beliefs included an extreme bias against homosexuals?

    • problembear

      when i owned my own business i hired just such a person because he was good at what he did. took some flak for it from my liberal friends, but once i told them that he did a good job and his beliefs are none of my business – only his own, they smiled at me and supported it. just as the guy who i hired admired me hiring him for his skills and not discriminating against him because of what he believed.

      i feel that that is my duty as an american.

      • problembear

        by the way brother, i am not particularly religious – trained by jesuits yes, but guided mostly by the principal that my grandfather taught me ages ago;

        never mix business with pleasure
        or dogs. they all will lead to argument.

        it seems we live in the age of hysteria now where everybody seems to want to get involved in everybody else’s private and personal business. in those days we called it being too nosey. perhaps if you weren’t quite so nosey, you could allow others to live their lives with equal freedom and justice to your own.

        if someone comes to me to rent an apartment or be hired for a job i do not consider it any of my business how they live their lives outside of work or any further than the requirement that they pay the rent on time. why should anything else be a factor as long as they obey the law and do a good job.?

        i find this modern nosey fundamental movement which attempts to quash people’s freedoms because they may or may not be different than the purported evangelical’s hypocritical view of themselves to be tiresome, fascist against christ’s teachings and unamerican.

        yet, i would never discriminate against you in any way, because i am american.

  6. Ryan Morton

    queer as i want to be!

  1. 1 problembear’s tweets « Problembear’s Weblog

    […] time for equal justice in missoula! 4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2010/04/11/dispelling-myths-on-the-anti-discrimination-ordinance/ […]

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