On Immigration

by jhwygirl

Immigration is all the rage on morning talk shows, which I didn’t miss (thankfully) this week because the marathoners (God Bless ’em) have been running on by since somewhere around 6:45 this morning.

Aside from what I think is completely misdirected energy by anyone wanting every illegal immigrant rounded up and deported…I’m wonder why these so-called reformers (rounding up and deporting everyone isn’t reform) are making this Obama’s issue – and why Obama is kowtowing to it.

Maybe we should have gotten better health care reform. Maybe we should be getting better finance reform.

Just off the top of my head, you know?

I hit this a little in this weekend’s open thread, and I think that the Take Our Jobs campaign from the UFW is ingenious.

How many real jobs are immigrants taking from Americans? Jobs that Americans want? Jobs that Americans can actually do? I mean – how much do you want to pay for a head of lettuce? $5? $7? How would that work for everyone?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away the federal government swooped into a little tourist town that garners an estimated 75,000 people a day stopping on by – sleeping, eating, drinking and doing the general thing that tourists do when they are on vacation. And the federal government rounded up all the undocumented workers (the dishwashers, the prep cooks, the housekeepers, the sanitation personnel). They separated families, leaving children without parents – in some cases, both – in other cases a father or a mother.

In this galaxy there were plenty of jobs to go around – and the while the undocumented workers were happy to be doing the general grunt work cleaning up of these 75,000 tourists each day (along with the 6,000 or so residents who were well paid for the better jobs such as line cooks, clerks, maintenance and general administration for the USFS, and the state and local government jobs), this round up by the federal government put the economy is a real lurch.

It left hotel owners with no one to clean rooms – see, the owners and the Americans had the cushy jobs of supervising these undocumented workers. It left the restaurateurs with no one to wash the dishes or mop up the restaurant.

What happen to the tourists? Their $175-a-night rooms weren’t ready even at 8:00 at night. It took hours during peak dining times to get food because pots and pans and plates and silverware weren’t getting cleaned fast enough. Owners and their legal employees had to work all through the night to get half-assed work done.

What else did they do? What else could they do – they put out a call for other galaxy residents to take on second and third jobs. They had to get through tourist season, after all. It’s when their money is made.

What did this American do? I helped. At a cost, of course – I mean, who in the hell wants to work two jobs when my first job was paying me plenty and I lived in such a galaxy that was attractive enough for 75,000 tourists a day to stop by? I wanted to enjoy that too – but I was sympathetic to the pains of my fellow galaxy residents….and I did what other Americans were doing. I gave up some of my precious time off in this attractive oasis and went to work. For a price.

What was I worth, with the owners in such a lurch? In the hotels I was worth $60 an hour. Cash, because they didn’t have the time to document my work. In many ways it was worth it to just walk in the door whenever I wanted (if I wanted) and work for however long I wanted and have them gratefully pay me that kind of money. Three hours and I had $180 in my pocket but I couldn’t head to the Cowboy Bar to spend it because they didn’t have enough staff and service sucked?

Moral: Profit went down for those owners. Americans don’t work cheap. Tourists will only pay so much for a hotel room, and they’ll only pay so much for a meal. When service sucks, tourists tip less. Waiters, waitresses and everyone who shared in these tips made less, but had to work more. Americans don’t like to work back-breaking jobs and they don’t like to work a second or a third like a lot of those undocumented immigrants were more than happy to do. If they do do those back-breaking kind of jobs, they want a lot of money.

The Obama Administration is now having the Immigration and Customs Service “sweep” companies that hire undocumented workers and having them all fired. They aren’t being deported, and this has the so-called reformers mad.

George Bush Jr. could have done this. He didn’t. He also could have done this and deported them. He didn’t.

Yet Obama is evil because he’s not doing anything about illegal immigration.

Arizona’s Governor Jan Brewer is lying – yep, I’m using the L word – and the WaPo’s is justifiably calling her out on it. Crime is down in Arizona, and there are more border guards then ever before.

When people talk about “wedge issues” this is one if I ever saw one. Sen. Tester periodically puts out a whine for more border guards to protect our northern border – much of which is just vast waterless grass and badland coulee rutted landscape – just to keep himself on the Montana conservative credibility range.

So now Obama isn’t doing anything. Or enough. With the whole budget deficit and everyone so concerned with the mounting deficit, now the “reformers’ want to whine about not busing all these illegal immigrants across the border?

Undocumented workers aren’t taking our jobs. They are, though, costing Americans a lot of money – in increased border patrols, forensic accounting of farms to find ’em, and soon – if these “reformers” don’t shut up – buses back to Mexico or Canada or wherever they came from.

Oh – and $7 lettuce.

  1. Time tested politics by the party of no- out of work?not making enough? Blame (insert minority here)

    Worked well in the early thirties post ww1 germany.

    When you are mean-spirited, why worry about doing The right thing? Just win baby!

    Ach tung!

    • Back in the ’70’s we went the “Buy American” route. I’d rather make our trade deficit, like China and Korea, the issue.

      Corporations are sending American jobs overseas – to communist repressive governments, for crying out loud!


  2. …and why Obama is kowtowing to it.

    How long is it going to take you to figure this one out? Keep working on it.

    The problems of immigration are many, but I highlight only two:

    Democrat president Clinton pushed and passed NAFTA. American farmers were then able to flood the Mexican market with subsidized corn, putting Mexican farmers out of business. Millions of Mexicans were put out of work. They in turn headed north. It’s not that they want to be Americans. They don’t. It’s not that they want to live here. They don’t. They are merely surviving. Thanks Bill.

    Secondly, and I pray deeply this sinks in: Americans will pay what they can afford. They will work for good wages. They will indeed pay $5.00 for a hunk of good lettuce if they in turn are being paid $15 per hour for their own labors. They are no more lazy than Mexicans. They only know about futility – that minimum wages jobs barely bring home enough bacon to pay the rent.

    They are economically rational, that’s all.

    • So – let me get this straight in my feeble little peanut-sized brain:

      –Immigration is not a “wedge issue”.

      –It’s all Bill Clinton’s fault.

      –Plenty of Americans will hand pick produce for 12 hours a day in 107 degree/80% humidy, wash dishes, and, in general, do all the grunt work needed to to keep our fat lazy Walmart-loving nation upright.

      –And you think that all it’ll take to get enough Americans to fill all those jobs is a measly $15 bucks an hour – or whatever – meaning that it’ll all work out to be economically viable all the way around? I.e., for everyone?

      Do I understand you correctly?

      • Well, now … immigration is indeed a wedge issue, as it it treated. No one is really interesting in solving the problem. It’s just a way to polarize and lock in votes.

        But it is not that simple, as it is a real problem in need of a real solution as well. Enforcement of employment laws would help. But I don’t see Obama doing that – instead I see sweeps and mass arrests of workers. That’s your guy, right?

        Most out-of-work Americans would be willing to work eight hours a day in hot weather or a hot kitchen for a living wage that includes benefits. Why do you sell them short? The number I mention happens to be more than double the minimum wage. Why do you doubt me?

        And, odd fact of economics born our by the post-war era – people who have money will spend it and are willing to spend most of their earnings to buy the things they need. How do you think the Scandinavian economies survive high taxes and high wages? People have money to spend.

        If you don’t understand the underlying devastation of the Mexican economy by NAFTA, then you cannot grasp why, essentially, Bill Clinton led us to this, and why Ross Perot was right. In addition to killing half a million Iraqi kids, he also laid waste to our neighbor to the south. The man was a human rights disaster. That’s your guy, right?

        There has always been immigration on the southern border, much of it seasonal – people would come here and work and then go home. Since NAFTA, it has exploded.

        • Enforcement of employment laws would help. But I don’t see Obama doing that – instead I see sweeps and mass arrests of workers.

          You want to see enforcement of employment laws, yet isn’t that exactly what Obama is doing? Pretty sure it is precisely what he is doing through his Administration.

          Most out-of-work Americans would be willing to work eight hours a day in hot weather or a hot kitchen for a living wage that includes benefits. Why do you sell them short? The number I mention happens to be more than double the minimum wage. Why do you doubt me?

          Basically, I think you are out of touch with reality on this, Mark. Farm jobs are not 8 hours a day and do not typically include benefits. In the galaxy far far away that I mention? No one wanted to wash dishes for the wages that were paid – and there were more jobs than there were people.

          You are also basically advocating for a nation of Burger King jobs (which I have bemoaned here more than I can count). I’d rather the U.S. focus on manufacturing and technology, but what the hell do I know, right?

          Not only that – regarding your “double the minimum wage” point – Here in Missoula (and I know you live in Colorado now, so you probably are unaware of this) McDonalds workers start at over $9 an hour. They don’t get benefits. And I reiterate – there are not enough Americans out there to do the hand labor that is needed to keep our cheap lettuce and Walmart-loving’ arses happy.

          I never said that I like NAFTA – in fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve criticized it openly on these pages.

          One of the thing that annoys me is that Democrats seem to drill every issue down to some moral thing – healthcare is a right, bank executives make obscene amounts of money and it isn’t right, and deporting undocumented worker (which is really what “reformers” want, because, you know, they don’t like Reagan-like amnesty) is wrong.

          Here’s what I think – and I believe I’ve said this before, and I think I did it with regards to Libby – the majority of Americans and our government only reacts, really, to money. In Libby no one gave a crap until, really, the government was so exposed to liability that that cost surpassed the allowable deaths that could be absorbed without all hell breaking lose.

          And so it goes with the lack of any solution being offered by the GOP on immigration reform. And Democrats allow the GOP to merely bitch an moan without focus on immigration without addressing what it is they are really calling for. How much will what they appear to be calling for really cost? Where is that money going to come from? Who is going to pay?

          Democrats should start focusing on the cost – to real Americans – to Main Street – of every friggin’ issue. They should get their calculators out immediately every time the GOP starts calling for ridiculous shit instead of replying with some sort of moral imperative dilemma. But again – what the hell do I know.

          I also hate how you ask “Why do you doubt me?” as if you are omnipotent and everything you say is absolute. It isn’t.

          • If you read me on a regular basis, you will note that I think that the D’s and R’s are essentially products of the same financiers, so that I don’t look to one or the other for a solution to any problem. So as you sit here carping about the D’s not hitting the R’s hard enough on the issues, and wanting them to focus on cost, it almost sounds as if you are … vague? And so you must be.

            You want solutions? Good grief! Your party dug this hole! You gave us Clinton! He gave us NAFTA. He gave us neo-liberalism and the Washington Consensus. Bush did not change anything when he was elected – he merely carried forward with Clintonism now as Obama carries forward with Bushism.

            Solutions? There is hope that as we sink to new lows with our current D-R structure that we again see grassroots movements for labor organizations, and end to free trade agreements, and end to the wars that Obama is expanding now …

            But it’s all grassroots organizing outside ‘the party’ – DnR. The population is deadened and seems immovable. Things have to get much worse, and this is where you and the Dems come in – please, make it so bad that people get active again!

            I know you can! I believe in the Democrats! I know you can do this.

            • No – really I was carping about the failure of the Republicans to offer a viable solution.

              I get that you hate Democrats. I think we all get that you hate Democrats. Can you please move on?

              If you read me regularly, you know that I’m not drinking blue kool-aid either.

            • Odd and interesting that when cornered Republicans claim not to be Republicans and Democrats not really Democrats. That, after you say this:

              …really I was carping about the failure of the Republicans to offer a viable solution.

              So what part of you are not different and you are both the problem did not penetrate?

              All of it, I suppose. But for God’s sake please stop harping on Republics for not solving your jointly-caused problems while claiming not to be a Democrat.


              • I repeat: You are not omnipotent and everything you say is not absolute.

                And you don’t know shit about me, despite the hundreds of thousands of words I’ve written here.


              • Mark T

                You also seem to have the idea that I am unable to ferret out a sampling of your thought processes byvwhat you write. It’s all a mystery until you reveal it when cornered.

                So when tackling huge issues caused by the financiers of your half of the party, be kinder. You. Don’t. Know. Jack.
                Here’s part of it: you are part of this mass of people who call themselves “democrat” who don’t even know their own party. The other half of our one party … Ditto.

                So when you tackle the huge issues that the

              • Hazards of Itouch posting from bed. The box that you are allowed to write in is about 7 cm by 6 cm.

              • Wow.

                You wake up that angry?

                That can’t be good for your health.

                As for “cornering” me? I. Am. The. Laughing. Blogger.

                (With a nod to Wulfgar!)

              • Yes, Wulfgar, save the girl!

                Not being “omnipotent” and things not being “absolute” has no meaning! You’re talking gibberish. You’re not addressing my point, which I repeat: The two parties caused the problem, and have no incentive to fix it.

                You are an abstract, dithering away on things that have no substance. Wulfgar cannot save you from that.

              • You bloviating arrogant misogynist. I don’t need Wulfgar! to save me. I “nodded” to Wulfgar because he has a post category of “I Am The Laughing Man”.

                You know that – I’m darn sure you’ve been the topic of one or two.

                You are the one talking gibberish here. I wrote a post about how the Republicans are all over the place and not offering any solutions to immigration reform. How it is going to cost more than what we will ever have to do what they want to do.

                You on the other hand want to talk about how it is Bill Clinton’s and every Democrat that ever existed on earth’s fault for everything that is wrong with everything you say is wrong.

                Why do you even read my dithering nonsense anyway? I don’t read yours.

              • You are fricking unreachable! It doesn’t matter if the R’s are not going to do anything. The D’s aren’t either! Here’s what I wrote over at that place you don’t read:

                What to do? That’s a question often asked. Over at 4&20 over the weekend, they wrestled with immigration … what to do? The author of the post is a Democrat, and had harsh words for Republicans, who are not ‘offering solutions’ to that problem.

                We now have 11.5 million illegals here. Most are here due to Bill Clinton’s NAFTA, also supported by the ‘other’ party. They are not going anywhere. We need to melt them in with us, bring them under our laws, and adapt. But bringing them under our laws would not be enough, as our laws are designed to thwart popular organizations. The illegals have to be blended into the current propaganda structure, and so must be shut out until they adapt. So the two parties are merely fighting for the votes of the Hispanic population while not doing anything concrete about the ‘problem.’

                There is no solution to be had, or alternately, the ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of immigration is, like so much else, an illusory goal. There is no electric razor that will fix that problem.

                And so that’s the way it is in the bipartite state. We must seek solutions that cannot be had until we break from the two parties, and the two parties are too powerful to break.

                \So I’ll repeat it one more time – neither party is going to do anything on the issue. Neither. Your post is not even touching on the surface of the planet.

    • Montana Cowgirl

      I would say that another problem that this issue brings up is that anyone who “takes on” the issue with a mind on deportation is going to have to decide who gets to stay and who gets to go. That will leave said decider open to all sorts of criticism and political problems, which could by why most Repubs aren’t willing to put their blabbing into action.

  3. Big Swede

    Another winning issue for you guys.

    Keep racking them up, the blow out is dead ahead.

    • So you are saying, then, that Republicans are going to take power, and then things are going to …. like ….. change?


      • Big Swede

        Radical change when Reps in power is debatable.

        I can guarantee you one thing, passing legislation that the majority, especially the voting majority dislikes is history.

        Also on everyones mind now is jobs and the economy. This admn has done everything in its power to stifle job growth. If the only thing the Reps do is stem the bleeding of jobs then they’ll be successful in other endeavors.

        • Lizard

          you are delusional swede. and ignorant of recent history. and blinded by ideology.

          • Big Swede

            I take “recent history” doesn’t extend itself to 1994.

            • Lizard

              are you trying to put me in a partisan hole again? because that doesn’t work on me.

              but maybe you’re right. maybe if republicans are brought back to power they can create another new federal department and thus more federal jobs. homeland security is great and all, but, man, i still don’t feel safe. we definitely need more bureaucracy.

        • Sounds a bit like the underpants solution:

          Phase one: Collect Underpants
          Phase two: ???
          Phase three: Profit

          Shackleford, where are you? Help me out here!

    • Big Swede? I’m asking for solutions here. What is it the GOP thinks is a viable solution? What is it that a open self-described true conservative (like you) thinks is the solution?

      You seem to avoid that stuff – and I am sort of sorry to bring this up – but I was truly disappointed when you bailed offering me anything on my last question of this nature.

      I know Rehberg’s staff and/or advisors read this blog. They’re paying good money to block this blog from coming up in google search engines.

      Maybe old Dennis would listen to someone like you. Give it a try. Offer some solution. That’d be more, frankly, than what he’s doing.

      • Big Swede

        I like these. Don’t know if Dennis will sign on, but he should.


        Oh, and term limits.

        • Big Swede – I re-read that page a few times, and didn’t find any solutions offered to immigration.

          It did advocate for this, though:

          The most powerful, proven instrument of material and social progress is the free market. The market economy, driven by the accumulated expressions of individual economic choices, is the only economic system that preserves and enhances individual liberty.

          If hiring undocumented workers isn’t truly the free market at work, I don’t know what is.

          As for term limits, I’m right with you. We’ve created an entitled meritocracy and I am sick of it.

          Maybe 3 terms for Congress and 2 for the Senate?

          • Big Swede

            Free market as in “paid in cash”?

            Ya know if they’d played by the rules as in paying taxes, buying insurance, made an effort to learn english I’d be for them staying on some sort of work visa.

            But they won’t. They want to make as much as they possibly can, use our services and not share in the expenses. In fact the money seldom even stays here. It’s sent back to Mexico in envelopes. We still have to educate their kids, feed them, provide them ER health care.

            And then there’s the drug aspect of free trade, not to mention free trade terrorists slipping across.

            Congrats, we can agree on your limits.

            • Free market as in allowing the market to do whatever it wants.

              Regulation isn’t the answer? Regulation is evil – it interferes. Or am I getting that wrong?

              As for those terrorists, we’ve got homegrown ones too, or are you forgetting that? But as for, let’s say, 9/11? Those guys either flew here or crossed the border in upstate New York. Legally. They didn’t come from Mexico and they didn’t walk across the grasslands and coulees between Canada and Montana.

              • Big Swede

                Its really hard for us as Montanans to grasp the problem.

                I have friends in AZ, they even live in upscale neighborhoods and have heard gunshots. Every day some undoc slams his pos into some residence’s vehicle. When the police arrive they give the officer a “no habla english” and staggers off unscathed.

                If we had to put up with this we’d be more sympathetic.

                Its the security issue that’s driving this.

              • FBI and Arizona state statistics on crime – linked to in my post – kinda dispel what you are saying.

                Good link from Lizard below. I know I’ve said that to my tea loving’ brother, and he just can’t believe it.

                I guess it’s because Glenn Beck says it’s so.

                They pay the taxes and into social security…yet can’t collect. How sweet it that?

            • Lizard

              i doubt this will dampen your xenophobia, swede, but it’s worth a shot.

              illegal immigrants are paying a lot more taxes than you think

              The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.

              In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.

              Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers. Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets.

  4. Big Swede

    Over a 4 year old study there Liz.

    Maybe you’d want something more up to date.


    • Lizard

      i don’t doubt illegal immigration costs money, but your little fox news blip also doesn’t address the fact, i’ll say it again, FACT, that many illegals ARE PAYING TAXES.

      but, swede, guess what. there is also a price attached to deport. are you willing to foot that bill? gas for the buses, courts fee for ripping families apart, etc.

      you have a soundbite understanding of this issue, swede. no, i’m sorry, you know someone who lives in arizona, so i guess that makes you an expert.

      folks from your tent will never figure out why mexico is so fucked up. and that’s what “immigration” is all about, mexicans.

      so go ahead, round them up, build a trillion dollar fence, militarize the border. all that costs lots of money, money a bunch of connected defense firms will profit handsomely from.

      you are a tool for those interests, swede. they exploit your xenophobia to fatten their stock value. and there are millions just like you, puking up fox soundbites while your politicos howl about how obama and the democrats won’t “secure” our borders.

      and because obama is a tool, he’s sending troops to the border. congratulations, swede, i can’t wait until team red is back in the drivers seat.

      • Big Swede

        A tad bit bitter maybe? Maybe this will cheer you up.

        Illegals are used mainly by rich capitalists. Thats right, large construction firms raping nature with huge developments. Same goes for the Green Giant, mega produce companies conglomerates massacring millions of snail darters in its evil wake.

        Oh, and how about all those mini mansions surrounding country clubs. All illegals all the time pushing and riding lawn mowers, spraying bug killer, and toting leaf blowers.

        The undoc is a tool of the rich, the sooner that tool is eliminated the sooner you can bring them to their knees.

        • Lizard

          not bitter, just disappointed at how stupid your talking points are.

          this country was built on the backs of immigrants, swede. everything you have is because of them, and cheap labor around the world. not that you care.

          here is someone who does, joe bageant

        • Really, Swede, go read it! Honest, you really should. Go read it.

          On a related note, Swede, Charles Whitman, the man who killed 14 people from the Texas Tower in 1966, has been exonerated posthumously by a Texas court. It was discovered that one of the people he was shooting at down below had a gun and could have fired back had be not been killed.

          They are calling it the “Wikileak Defense”. I’m sure you are familiar with it.

  5. Pogo Possum

    Looks like even Democratic Governors agree with Swede.


    Governors Voice Grave Concerns on Immigration

    “In a private meeting with White House officials this weekend, Democratic governors voiced deep anxiety about the Obama administration’s suit against Arizona’s new immigration law, worrying that it could cost a vulnerable Democratic Party in the fall elections.”

    “The lawsuit contends that controlling immigration is a federal responsibility, but polls suggest that a majority of Americans support the Arizona law, or at least the concept of a state having a strong role in immigration enforcement.”

    Even faux cowboy Brian Schweitzer got in on the act and saw his party was on the wrong side of the issue:

    “Some Democrats also joined Republicans in calling for Congress to pass an immigration policy overhaul this year. “There are 535 members of Congress,” said Gov. Brian Schweitzer of Montana, a Democrat. “Certainly somebody back there can chew gum and hold the basketball at the same time. This is not an either-or.”

    • That can’t be true – Mark Tokarski says I am a Democratic tool.

      And he is all knowing.

    • You are, but that is not the point. Read the link he gave you – they are arguing politics, not “solutions”, which don’t exist anyway. Repealing NAFTA is not political achievable, as both parties support it. The wealthy who employ the illegals also hold sway over both parties. No action forthcoming there.

      The Arizona law cannot begin to address the issue of 11.5 million illegals. Much ado about nothing, tool.

  6. Tim

    Some of you who claim to know people in Arizona crack me up. I live in Arizona. My pos car has now been rear-ended four times by someone else’s pos. Thankfully, my pos is a 1980’s land yacht with metal bumpers and can take a hit.

    To those who claim to hear gun shots…yeah, right. We live in Arizona. Everyone runs out in the desert and plays with their guns here. It’s a past-time.

    And our governor is a liar.

    FYI…those four people that rear-ended my car. All white, all citizens…one woman, three men. No one knows how to drive here. McCain recently made a statement that “illegals” go around and purposely cause accidents. He is also a liar.

    • Big Swede

      Damn, and I was going to make all the way thru this thread without a Utube.

      • i see you are stocked up on all the right wing luney tunes koolaid this summer…. sprinkle in a touch of mccain propoganda, add a dash of rush and blend with some good old fashioned white guy executive ice cold paranoia, and voila…..the hallucinations and the “they are all out to get us” panic becomes almost real…
        or at least more palatable than the truth.


        your idiot president drove our economy into the ditch and left the wreck for the american workers and taxpayers to tow out and repair… your beloved free enterprise foreign owned and non-taxpaying corporations that avoid hiring americans to maximize profit keep tapping the treasury for some more free welfare with the aid of lobbyists…..haliburton continues to rip off the treasury by promoting two wars that bleed us dry….

        this country’s economy has been looted and our nation’s fighting men have been betrayed by white ceo’s who have poor little foot soldiers like you to defend them.

        yeah, minorities are the problem.

        • while right wing lackeys like big swede continue to spread the bald face lie that republicans are the champions of american workers because they support the draconian arizona immigration laws, their latest failure to allow unemployment extensions to long term unemployed workers is about to become real to desperate american families displaced by the bush-crash…..


          • Big Swede

            Took 54 comments until the blame Bush card was played.

            I’m thinking we’re actually making some progress here.

            • Lizard

              you are right swede, there is progress. one of the reasons i appreciate this blog, less reflexive backward blind partisan blame thrown out as step one.

              too bad mark can’t acknowledge that about j-girl.

            • so bs- how do you expect the public to rationalize a recalcitrant minority in congress holding up approval for extended unemployment benefits for long term unemployed workers?

              and i know you would like us all to forget who was in charge in the white house when this crash occurred. but i will make sure we don’t.

              your right wing friends are good at rewriting history but not as good most of us at remembering the truth.

              • we know that bs is not concerned much with the unemployed but if anyone is interested in the unemployment rates of municipalities accross our nation and the resulting outcry from those who stand to lose unemployment benefits thanks to the party of no standing in the way here is the site…


                you will see that missoula is faring better than much of the country at 6.6%

                the nation is at 9.9%

                on this map you can see that much of the west and the south is still in the grip of a deep recession…


                any way you color it, the map is not good. families that are turned away from this slim life line of survival will be devastated.

              • Big Swede

                Like they say in the National Parks, “Once a bear is hooked on garbage, there’s no cure.”

              • That is a classic statement, Swede – Social Darwinism, which is the basis of virtually all right wing thought, and which all right wing thinkers deny.

                And it turns reality on its head. We evolved as a nurturing species with a few sociopaths as dynamic leaders. We take care of one another – that’s why we are here. We are not destroyed by nurture, but rather strengthened. Those that receive benefits will return to the work force and work harder, and when it is time to pay out to someone else in need, will do so willingly.

                Right wingers misinterpret life and do not understand the nature of humans.

                Thanks Swede, for clearing it up for us.

              • Big Swede

                Don’t “right wingers” out give left wingers when it comes to charity? By huge margins?

                Twist that one Mark.

              • You are correct, though not on scale, and it is irrelevant, as no amount of private charity can remedy the problems we face.

                Now, deal with what I said, dammit.

  1. 1 Crips and Bloods « Piece Of Mind

    […] to do? That’s a question often asked. Over at 4&20 over the weekend, they wrestled with immigration … what to do? The author of the post is a Democrat, and had […]

  2. 2 Crips or Bloods (The Athena Paradox) « Piece Of Mind

    […] to do? That’s a question often asked. Over at 4&20 over the weekend, they wrestled with immigration … what to do? The author of the post is a Democrat, and had […]

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