good post on false health care reform


by problembear

the so called health-care bill that max baucus and the insider club obama operatives signed off on has resulted in raising our health insurance rates even more, making it that much harder for businesses, families and individuals to afford health insurance. this man has a great post on it that i wanted to share with you all. mark does some good posts (not too thrilled with his commenting style on other blogs but i find his take on many things very insightful, especially the total fail that resulted in a piss-poor excuse of a health care bill written by a baucus aide who was once a vice-president of of one of the biggest health insurers in america.

i truly believe that if our super-majority congress with a new president had gotten decent health care reform passed in the past year that allowed us to  rid this country of these blood-sucking parasites, we would be watching the collapse of the republican party right now instead of seeing the rise of crazy people spewing hatred, selfishness, greed, racism and homophobia.

instead our leaders led by max baucus wimped out, the minority party saw cowardice and sensed weakness and took advantage of it. their victory in handing health care reform over to the health insurers it was supposed to control empowered the tea party and the republican party and they are still gaining from it every day because as americans and their empolyers open their invoices from the health insurers and see big increases they are all asking one thing. what the hell was health insurance reform good for if we can’t afford to buy  it.?


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  1. JC

    “what the hell was health insurance reform good for if we can’t afford to buy it.?”

    I checked into the new MAC Plan (the new plan for high risk folks who’ve been denied “regular” health insurance) and it is totally unaffordable. $450/month with an almost $6,000/year deductible. That’s almost $12,000 per year.

    I guess a few people have bought into it, but it seems that it is a highly unpopular and unused bridge plan to the new system in 2014.

    If you can afford $12,000 per year, then most likely you’ve got a job that provides you with health insurance, anyways. I don’t know what those people were thinking when they designed this thing.

    Wait a minute, I know what they were thinking: how much air time those lobbyist checks would buy.

    • How much is the fine? It isn’t that much, I know. Isn’t that incentive to take the fines until you’re sick, then buy the insurance?

      • JC

        There’s no fine at this point. This is just a feel good addendum to state high risk pools–if states have them.

        But my point is, in order to use the plan, you need $450/month, and a $5950/year deductible. You need $12,000/year or you’ll just go medically bankrupt. If you’re going to go bankrupt anyways, if you have expenses over $12k/year, what’s the use of getting the plan?

        I was hoping they’d have plans comparable in cost to what a person who isn’t high risk would pay–that was what this new high risk plan was sold as. Which means the premium for me would have been $250/month with a $2500/year deductible. Less than half the cost of what we were given.

        You might say that the plan was a total bait and switch attempt to give dems something to run on this fall/

        How many dems do you see touting the new federally funded high risk pool plans?

        Nada. Zip. That should tell you something.

    • Montana has had a high-risk pool, open to anyone uninsured, for some time….and you have laid out quite succinctly why so very very few have taken “advantage” of this program.

  2. Blasphemy!

    President Clinton went up to Capital Hill, and told Congressional Dems that if they didn’t pass Obamacare that they would get creamed at the polls.

    The Great Leader, The Messiah, The Protector of the Poor, President Obama told us costs would COME DOWN.

    So, remember, the costs are coming down, and you must not criticize The Great Leaders plan!

    • Of course the party of no made sure the health insurers were protected by shoving the cowards into this pathetic P.O.S. Bill precisely so we would hate them for it.

      Good work eric. Make the people suffer so your bushista party can make a come back.

      Thanks. Thanks a lot. For nothing.

      Truth is. Neither party is looking good on this one.

      • Pogo Possum

        “Of course the party of no made sure the health insurers were protected by shoving the cowards into this pathetic P.O.S. Bill precisely so we would hate them for it. ”

        Thanks PBear. You just gave an excellent example why voters are turning on Democrats this year. In spite of holding the executive office and holding enough of a majority in the House and Senate to drive through any legislation they choose, the Dems and their liberal supporters continue to blame the GOP. The public isn’t buying it and are holding Obama and Democrats responsible.

      • Moorcat

        Sorry, got to call BS this time. “The party of no” did not hand this mess to the people of the US. They were universally against it. You can’t blame the conservatives for giving this handoff to the insurance companies… Dems did that all on thier own.

  3. Chuck

    I’m in the high risk pool and it’s the only deal I can find. I am not high risk. I had to have a knee replaced at age 50 and I developed arthritis in the joint. The next year my insurance company excluded every other joint, tissues and muscles and raised my rate by 50% to 1200 a month.
    I am self employed , paying 12 grand for my wife and I and slowly going broke. I am 55 .
    Max Baucus is a despicable man and I hope he rots in hell.
    I am going to actively work as hard as I can against that asshole.
    Obama sold me out.
    Have nice day.

  4. Moorcat

    Wulfgar made a post aimed directly at me on his blog about this very subject. http://wulfgar.typepad.com/a_chicken_is_not_pillage/2010/09/mostly-for-moorcat.html

    Sadly, while he is correct that the HCR did not require insurance companies to raise thier rates across the board, it did nothing to prevent them from doing so either. Further, it requires everyone to purchase insurance so why not raise the rates, increase deductables, deny procedures and medicines, etc. The Insurance Companies laughed all the way to the bank after the passage of HCR and people can write nasty letters to them all day long. It isn’t going to change for the better and it has every indication that it is going to get a lot worse. I dread the letter we will get from the insurance company this year – they are talking even higher deductables, and are already demanding a further rate increase. With wages frozen (my wife works for the state), our income is going down significantly due to these increase is premiums.

    Don’t even try to tell me HCR was a good thing…

  5. The Polish Wolf

    Yeah, Max doesn’t have a spine, but that just means he’s easy to push around. Lets not forget the thousands of screaming Americans at town hall meetings around the country, the lying media giants, and Palin with her ‘death panels’ that pushed him in this direction. Anyone complaining about this compromise who was opposed to a public option or single payer system has no room to complain – this is the sort of compromise that occurs when you try to find a midway between the right thing to do and the Palin thing to do.

    • Moorcat

      So let me get this straight.. you are blaming the HCR on… Palin? Remind me how many votes Palin has in Congress? Does Palin have Veto power?

      Sorry, you Dems gave us this abortion. Sad thing is, many people actually supported at least a public option (including many conservatives) and some even supported a Universal Health Care system similar to what every industrial country except American has – myself included. The Dems simply didn’t have the gumption to go against the Insurance Company Lobbies, the Pharm lobbies or the Medical Care lobbies. They wanted the millions of dollars of support to continue. The result is the Abortion called HCR. You guys sold us out and now you are trying to blame your mistake on anyone – Palin, “the party of no”, Bush, little green men – except where the blame solidly belongs.. the weaklings we elected to protect us from things like this.

      • The Polish Wolf

        Moorcat – You can’t blame us for trying to compromise with Republicans. Not a single Republican would have voted for the public option, and you know it. Sarah Palin and her political allies led the opposition to any government involvement. To say she can’t be blamed because she wasn’t in the senate is dishonest and I think you know it. That’s like saying MLK JR. can’t get any credit for civil rights because he wasn’t in office at the time. Palin thinks she is leading the same kind of movement, and it’s starting to look like her influence is comparable. If you think she’s not at least partially responsible for the fact that we have no public option, you’re choosing to ignore evidence.

        • Moorcat

          Sorry, again, it just doesn’t wash. First, the Dems control both houses of Congress and the Presidency – they didn’t need to curry favor and had they actually taken the bull by the horns and led, it wouldn’t have mattered what the mainstream republicans thought. Second, you assume that no Republican would have voted for a public option, you don’t know because the bill that was voted on didn’t have one. Third, Palin is not responcible in any way. She didn’t vote, she doesn’t control votes, and she is laughable when it comes to “influence”.

          • Excellent point moorcat. Bring it up for a vote and make the republicants vote on public option.

            Then they look like the jerks instead of cowardly passing a pos bill they knew americans would hate.

  6. Big Swede

    Health Care. Would there be The Tea Party without it?

    Would Dems be as divided into two camps-pissed off and don’t care/idiots?

    Would the purging of RINOS be happening in the primaries?

    Would the repercussions doom the reelections of Max or Jon?

    Pass the popcorn, can’t wait to find out.

    • Big Swede

      Now in the lame duck session you guys needs to force feed us cap and tax and amnesty for illegals.

      That should send you wandering in the wilderness for ’bout twenty years.

    • JC

      Funny if you think purging RINOs is going to save the republican party. You’re forgetting that independents and moderate republicans (RINOS) still vote. And they ain’t going to vote for tea bagger candidates.

      And Health care was just a convenient way for the tea bagger handlers and funders to launch their campaign against Obama. If it wasn’t health care reform it would have been something else.

      Would Dems be as divided into two camps-pissed off and don’t care/idiots?"

      Are dems any more divided than the republican party–which is tearing itself in two by purging RINOs and electing right wing radical tea bagger candidates? I don’t think so.

      • Big Swede

        Is that’s whats happening JC? This says something different. Via American Univ. WA DC. Sept 6th. ’10

        “In another sign that the Democratic Party is in deep trouble in the 2010 mid-term elections, the average Republican vote for statewide offices (U.S. Senator and Governor) in the primaries held through August 28 exceeded the Democratic vote, the first time this has happened in mid-term primaries since 1930, according to Curtis Gans, director of American University’s Center for the Study of the American Electorate.
        Republican turnout in their statewide primaries exceeded Democratic turnout in theirs by more than 4 million votes. The average percentage of eligible citizens who voted in Democratic primaries was the lowest ever. The average percentage of citizens who voted in the GOP statewide primaries was the highest since 1970.
        These were among the highlights of a report on turnout in the 35 statewide primaries held before September 1 by American University’s Center for the Study of the American Electorate, based on final and official results for the primaries prior to August 17 and final but unofficial for those primaries which occurred later.”

        This was done as of the 6th, I’m thinking the numbers are even better for the Reps after Tuesday.

        Bring on the radicals.

        • JC

          You’ve got a bunch of energized right wing base voters, and demoralized left wing base voters. What does any of that have to day about how the middle and independents are going to vote?Nothing.

          You’re still avoiding my point. And that is that independents and moderate republicans aren’t going to vote for radical right wing candidates. If anything, they’ll stay home.

          But feel free to chuckle all the way to the election thinking that your tea bagger candidates are looking good because of their performance in the primaries.

          Kind of reminds me of democrats and their left wing in the late 70’s, early 80’s, nominating a bunch of left wing candidates, and then losing the general. WHich explains why Clinton and the dems all moved to the center in the 90’s to win their elections. And why centrist (some would say moderate republican, or reagan democrat) dems still vilify the left today.

          • Big Swede

            JC, 4 in 10 are Ind/Dems.

            The middle isn’t staying home they’re marching with signs. Via The Hill.

            Four in 10 Tea Party members are either Democrats or Independents, according to a new national survey.

            The findings provide one of the most detailed portraits to date of the grassroots movement that started last year.

            The national breakdown of the Tea Party composition is 57 percent Republican, 28 percent Independent and 13 percent Democratic, according to three national polls by the Winston Group, a Republican-leaning firm that conducted the surveys on behalf of an education advocacy group. Two-thirds of the group call themselves conservative, 26 are moderate and 8 percent say they are liberal.”

          • JC – sounds suspiciously like a standard narrative. Liberals enjoyed a great run under Nixon, and then Ford, and to some extent under Carter, and were then purged, not for electoral, but rather ideological reasons. They were liberals. Of the real kind.

            • JC

              Isn’t that what I said? They were purged for being too far left to get elected. Take that as electoral or ideological. Same result.

              Didn’t keep me from voting for them, that’s for sure. When dems quit nominating them, I quit voting for dems, and went third party or abstained.

              But you can be suspicious as you want with that dem noose you want to hang over my neck… doesn’t change things.

            • I meant to say that the party purged its lefties but that it had nothing to do with electability of lefties. I’ll grant you that McGovern was too idealistic to survive a presidential race, but the party featured a good many really progressive people through the 1970’s and even into the 80’s.

              Money wanted a different kind of candidate, and money got what money wanted, The DLC was born.

              What I heard you say was the left led the party to electoral purgatory, which is not true. If that’s not what you mean, my bad.

            • JC

              I don’t think the left led the dems to electoral purgatory in the way the the tea party might lead republicans. But I think the rise of the DLC was as much a response to the ideology of the left, and losing a lot of elections, as it was pandering to corporatism.

              A lot of good left candidates lost, though a few did manage to hang on for a while. But you probably don’t remember the good lefty candidates that lost a lot of elections, as you were still wandering in the republican wasteland at the time.

        • JC

          Here BS, read this article from E.J. Dionne. It pretty well summarizes what I’ve been thinking.

          Of course, we can argue about this till the cows come home, but the votes in November will tell the story.

          • Big Swede

            Yeah, you could fill a beer stein with all those tears.

            If Castle was such a gentleman, or uniter, then how come he hasn’t called O’Donnel and congratulated her?

            He did take calls from Barry and Joe. I sure they said his support will be sorely missed.

            Anyway I agree, Nov. dispels the notion that extremists live amongst us.

            Here’s my prediction. You’ll regret this president more than George Bush or even Reagan, because of his systematic destruction of your party.

            • JC

              NOt my party. But I don’t think the potential destruction of the dem party is anything compared to 30 years of reaganomics destroying the middle class.

              And none of this still says anything about the unravelling of the republican party that is going on right now.

              And why should Castle engage in disingenuous prattle? Are all politicians supposed to be insincere and congratulate those who lied about them?

            • Interesting phenomenon that we encounter with the black/white us/them thinkers – you can scream until you are blue that you are not a Democrat, and the next time you encounter him, you will be a Democrat.

      • mr benson

        The Tea Party, like the Constitutionalists, are not Republicans. THEY are the Rinos.

        I am a republican, the party of Lincoln. They are the party of south carolina.

    • It’s almost daily becoming harder to believe how short American memories are.

      It wasn’t the health care bill, that fostered the Tea Parties. It was the stimulus and HAMP. I would add that both of those were in the works before the January 2009 Inauguration, and the stimulus bill was in the works, with Republican support, before the election of 2008. (Don’t bother to tell me that HAMP is and was a failure; I’m well aware of that.) Does anybody remember that that’s precisely why Obama kept Geithner on board, back in the winter of love sauced with delusions of bi-partisanship? Am I the only one who remembers Santelli’s little CNBC rant, which cranked the gears of the Tea Party generation machine via FOX news?

      But no, the narrative is all about the failure of Obamacare. Every local wingnut is running on it. Every single one. And here we have a thread where folks get their ya-yas out about how disappointed they are with Obamacare, agreeing with a narative that isn’t really about progress. It’s about bi-partisanship. It’s about agreeing that when the same assholes who put us in this situation to begin with are handed power again, it’s really not your fault. After all, we’re all special little snowflakes, and someone let us down, whether it’s RINOs or feckless Demorats doesn’t matter one bit. It’s all the same sad tune, my life will be so much better when I give control back to the ones who made it miserable in the first place. We must punish Democrats by self-flagellation apparently. We must punish RINOS because that’s what our handlers are telling us to do. Democrats have handlers too. You know who they are? Republicants. Progressives have handlers as well, and you know who they are? Republicants.

      When you forget what actually happened, and swallow whole the storyline fed you by others, it’s easy to be played. Obamacare is a huge failure. Democrats always capitulate (ignoring the cognitive dissonance when they don’t). The scary Tea Partiers will do us harm because we aren’t motivated to do anything about it, because no one will “lead” us. That’s the one that truly slays me. The Tea Party is ‘scawwy’ because they supposedly self-motivate. They don’t, I know. But shouldn’t we leftward leaners, if we have half an ounce of sense, appropriate what makes them so ‘scawwy’? Shouldn’t we self-motivate instead of whining about how our leaders have so betrayed us, while supporting the leaders on the right who are every bit as bad (worse) as the leaders on the left you don’t think exist? Or we can just blame corporatists, and hey it ain’t my fault, bro …

      (This comment is directed at you just as much as $WEDE, JC)

      • Big Swede

        I disagree on some minor points.

        You can legitimately blame Bush after the election for leaving a financial mess to be cleaned up. I just sayin that HCR was all Barry’s and he had to bribe and cajole to get it.

        Once the target was defined the Camel’s back snapped.

      • JC

        Sure the tea partiers got going back when the election of Obama seemed imminent. One only has to remember McCain’s town halls, and Palin’s egging on the crowds. That’s what got them going.

        The August recess in 2009 gave the ‘baggers an easy target to get visible. Like I said, if it wasn’t that, it would have been something else.

        I just offered some anecdotal evidence of the failure of one part of the health care bill that I experienced first hand. The one part of the bill that I thought might be able to get me some insurance before 2014.

        As to the tea partiers being “scawwy”, I laugh. They’re about as scary as the left wing radicals I used to hang out with and conduct rallies, etc. with. The ‘bagger’s handlers watched, listened and learned from those political hysterics, and applied the lesson to today’s version of radical politics.

        As to self-motivation, I can be self-motivated to do a lot of things. But voting for the lesser of two evils, or for a politician who is ethically and morally bankrupt is not something I compromise my principles for.

        Better to self motivate to hunker down while the radical fringes try and pull the center their directions, and result in a new generation of turmoil the likes of which we haven’t seen since the sixties. We have a uni-party system consisting of a broad center composed of RINOS and DINOS and independents being jerked by both sides of the radical fringe.

        I know you’re afraid of the tea party handing control of our politics to their masters, but all you are doing is advancing the politics of fear.

        And back to the topic of this diary, because comprehensive health care is out of my reach for another 3 years, whether or not the country tears itself apart is moot, as I don’t know if I’ll be around to see the outcome.

        • I know you’re afraid of the tea party handing control of our politics to their masters, but all you are doing is advancing the politics of fear.

          Hmmm. Then you’re an idiot. ~facepalm~

          No, dipstick. You’re the one handing over control of our politics to the Teabagger’s masters. Read what I wrote again, and this time, do try to understand it.

          • JC

            I’m not handing over the control of politics to anyone. Wish that I would have that power. I don’t.

            In your rant above:

            “Obamacare is a huge failure.”

            It is hard to decipher sarcasm from conjecture, from true belief. The lack of understanding isn’t on my part. You want people to follow, then don’t be so obtuse.

          • It’s hard to believe that you don’t understand my sarcasm, save that you don’t want to. I don’t give a shit if anyone “follows”. I never asked for a leader. I never asked to be a leader. You did.

            You follow the narrative of the right. That’s not bad, until you expect others to follow it as well. You do expect that of me, and even accuse. Get a grip, my friend. You should know better.

        • …my life will be so much better when I give control back to the ones who made it miserable in the first place.

          Regardless of your personal situation, and I do feel your pain, I think it is our right as voters to vote for those candidates we like, and not vote for those we do not like.

          This corner that you continually try to push us into – weak and third-rate candidates to really bad ones … boring.

          Obama was a really good candidate and energized the country. Too bad he wasn’t real.

          • JC

            And I agree with your point about Obama as a good candidate. I still don’t know if he is real or not. But he sure hasn’t figured out how to translate his campaign style into political leadership.

            If Obama would purge his admin of Robert Rubin proteges and other Clinton era appointees (Rahm), maybe his approach would change.

            And I don’t try to push anybody into third party corners. I happen to think that encouraging a good alternative candidate to a poor mainstream one allows me to have some principles. Sorry if people don’t like it.

            Oh, and I don’t know if this comment was made for me or Wulfgar. But it seemed to be pointed at me with a quote from Wulfgar.

          • No- not at you at all, but I wonder how long it will take for you to see that he is not one of us? My first hint was his appointment of Emanuel as COS.

            He didn’t bring rivals into his cabinet so much as compadres.

      • The business I owned was in construction. I was a contractor that supplied a needed service that required a great deal of perfection.

        The cardinal rule I tried to follow was this…

        If you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all. I argued with matt singer in may of ’09 that not doing singlepayer or at the very least, public option would guarantee that dems would lose and lose big.

        Facts is facts. Dem so-called leaders beat themselves to death with their own shovel on health care and now the health insurers are burying them with higher premiums and deductibles.

        Any contractor can tell you it is suicide to put your name on shitty work.
        If real HCR wasn’t possible then it would have been better to walk away from a shitty project and rightfully blame those responsible for killing it- the republicants.

        Too late now that it’s built. People blame dems now.

        • Pogo Possum

          I see you are still using photo shopped pictues to make your point, PBear. Can’t find real ones with real people holding them?

          • Watsamatter e.g. Marshall? Little lights not twinkling enough for you?

            • Pogo Possum

              I just expected more from 4&20blackbirds official contributors. You know, like integrity and a smidgen of jounalistic integrity.

              • Pogo Possum

                Let me correct my post.

                I just expected more from 4&20blackbird’s official contributors. You know, like originality and a smidgen of jounalistic integrity. But then again, that requires effort.

                Fortunately for this blog, some of the other official contributors are responsible adults and are far more professional.

  7. We’re on the threshold of hell in this country and this is what you worry about pogo?

    I’d like what he’s having….

    • Pogo Possum

      Yeah, I guess that bit you just mentioned about “perfection” and “. . . If you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all” was just for chuckles.

  1. 1 August was a bad month, 2009 was a bad year « 4&20 blackbirds

    […] are also 4.4 million more people without health insurance, and as p-bear already pointed out that number probably won’t be going up quickly, ya know, cause the reform bill doesn’t even really come into effect until 2014 (and […]




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