A Murder The Media Will Help Bury

by lizard

Before the focus of corporate media rushed 24-hr coverage to Tucson, there was another high-profile murder victim making national headlines: John P. Wheeler III.

Who, you ask? Here’s the skinny:

The body of a military expert who served in three Republican administrations was found dumped in a landfill over the holiday weekend, and investigators said Monday they do not know who might have killed him.

John Wheeler III, 66, was last seen Dec. 28 on an Amtrak train from Washington to Wilmington. His body was found three days later, on New Year’s Eve, as a garbage truck emptied its contents at the Cherry Island landfill. His death has been ruled a homicide.

Wheeler, who served in Vietnam, helped lead efforts to build the Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall in Washington.

The former Army officer lived in New Castle and worked as a consultant for The Mitre Corporation, a nonprofit based in Bedford, Mass., and McLean, Va., that operates federally funded research and development centers.

why does this matter? Nuclear war and Dick Cheney. Let me explain.

Four years ago, at the end of August, 2007, a major incident involving nuclear weapons occurred, and was virtually buried by the corporate media. Here’s the wikipedia account of what transpired:

The 2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident occurred at Minot Air Force Base and Barksdale Air Force Base on August 29–30, 2007. Six AGM-129 ACM cruise missiles, each loaded with a W80-1 variable yield nuclear warhead, were reportedly mistakenly loaded on a United States Air Force (USAF) B-52H heavy bomber at Minot and transported to Barksdale. The nuclear warheads in the missiles were supposed to have been removed before taking the missiles from their storage bunker. The missiles with the nuclear warheads were not reported missing and remained mounted to the aircraft at both Minot and Barksdale for a period of 36 hours. During this period, the warheads were not protected by the various mandatory security precautions required for nuclear weapons

This story got the flat lens from the networks and the backpage from print. Apparently a breach in our national security involving nuclear weapons was just some oops moment to be mentioned and moved along to the dustbin.

John P. Wheeler was found in a landfill on New Years Eve, but it wasn’t until a few days ago I ran across something interesting that claims to link him to the loose nuke incident in 2007:

Wheeler was the assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force in the George W. Bush Administration. It was the Secretary of the Air Force who discovered that Richard Cheney had set up an alternative chain of command to the nuclear weapons wing of the AF. In the process, six minutemen missiles armed with nuclear warheads were secretly transported from Minot AFB to Barksdale AFB. The later is the chief staging base for the Middle East war. The alarm system for the weapons was deactivated for the transport, something that not even the base commander could authorize. The orders had to have come from above. Many point to Cheney. Before the warheads could be flown via B-52 to the Iraq/Iran theater, the Secretary of the Air Force ordered the stand-down of all B-52 flights. When he discovered the alternative chain of command to Cheney, he fired all military personnel who were involved. Cheney was said to have been livid. The Secretary ordered an investigation of what the AF press release called an oversight, and 70 enlisted men and 5 officers were removed from the Minot nuclear system.

At the same time, people involved began to die mysteriously. Wheeler is only the latest casualty.

The above “information” is second hand conjecture from a borderline conspiracy culture charlatan, Wayne Madsen, so don’t take it too seriously.

But I find it plenty plausible that Dick would try to pull something like this.

I also think it’s possible the neocon coup is still active, with lots of left-behind influence to coerce and intimidate the President. Who knows, maybe Obama’s seeming complicity is actually mortal self-preservation.


The conversation happening now about 30-shot clips and craziness, incitement and partisanship, needs to happen. I don’t want to detract from that.

But when a mysterious death like this happens, and gets the broom treatment from corporate media, I can’t help wonder what’s really going on in the shadows.

  1. Pogo Possum

    Oh you silly silly conspiracy theorist PBear.

    • JC

      Why you diss’ing on PBear? He didn’t write this.

      • Pogo Possum

        I have little patience for groundless conspiracy theorists whether they are jabbering about black helicopters and New World Order, 9/11 ‘False Flag Operations” nut jobs, or people pushing baseless covert murders of ex-Bush administration neo-cons like PBear’s nonsense.

        “it’s possible the neocon coup is still active” ….”to coerce and intimidate the President”

        “But when a mysterious death like this happens…..I , can’t help wonder what’s really going on in the shadows.”

        There are lots of unanswered questions in the death of this individual, but nothing is pointing to a covert hit job by neocon coup opperatives.

        • Pogo Possum

          Here are a few more facts and some more considered observations:


          “His death was quickly ruled a homicide, but a criminologist told “The Early Show on Saturday Morning” authorities may have moved too quickly in that declaration, and that there are other plausible possible causes of death.”

          “. . . He appeared unhinged in the days before his death, reports CBS News correspondent Michelle Miller. Surveillance video caught Wheeler in a Wilmington parking garage two days earlier, looking disoriented. He wasn’t wearing a coat and was carrying one shoe.

          “The next night, Dec. 30, Wheeler was seen at another building in Wilmington, dressed in different clothes and again looking confused.

          On “The Early Show on Saturday Morning,” criminologist Casey Jordan. of Western Connecticut State University, in Danbury, pointed out . . . . . “And the fact of the matter is that, when we see this footage, we see perhaps he was suffering from an organic brain problem? Even his neighbors say they’d never seen him like this. Was he poisoned? Did he have a brain tumor? Did he suffer from brain cancer and nobody even knew it? Something — there’s a disconnect between him being in the dumpster and that behavior we see in the hours before he disappeared.”

      • wish i had. but not my topic. great post liz.

        possums seem to be a bit disoriented as well.

  2. Pogo Possum

    I bet those darned black helicopters had something to do with it to. That or aliens.

    • Pogue Mahone

      Pogue to Pogo, did you EVER work around nukes in the military? I did. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to misplace six nukes! Pilots didn’t know they were flying nukes? IMPOSSIBLE! I want to know how cheney did it! Hell, ALL Americans should! And yes, Bush planted moles DEEP into all government departments. It wasn’t just Justice. Who knows how deep the Bush moles are. Hell, his daddy was CIA looong ago. But please, give me your best explanation for missing nukes. This AIN’T Russia!

  3. Pogue Mahone

    As a former member of the military, I’m here to tell ya that you DON’T, as in DO NOT, displace a nuke! That’s an impossibility. Cheney did something. And you’re quite right. It’s really scary and should be fully investigated. But by whom? Better happen though before all the witnesses are dead. BTW, has the dick died yet? No? Too bad. He gives me hope that there’s a hell.

  4. Pogue Mahone

    p.s. I worked around nukes too.

  5. Would it be too much to ask that you provide a link, somewhere maybe? Other than Wikipedia that is? Or would asking for some evidence, any even, be “trolling” your post?

    • I’ve been following this story since it was a body in a dump. Here’s just one I found.

      • In truth, jhwygirl, I’ve been following the story too. I first encountered it on the blog, Lawyers, Guns and Money. Shortly thereafter it made FARK. (actually, I think it hit FARK first, I just didn’t read it there as soon.) As jerk-ish as it may be, my point was this. This murder was reported by NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, Reuters, The New York Times … and the list goes on. They are continuing to follow the story, reporting on the sequestered subpoenas, search warrants and such. The nuclear weapons that left Minot for Barksdale were also reported on every one of those outlets, online and otherwise. It wasn’t back page, as Lizard claims. It was big scary news. There were even follow-ups about the inspections of the bases, procedural reviews and the firing of the Secretary of the Air Force because of such things as the Minot debacle.

        What’s missing from Lizard’s review of the facts is any real or even plausible tie between the murder of Wheeler and the shadow government seizing control of our nuclear arsenal. Pointedly, and probably painfully to him, the only tie he draws is one he himself denigrates as coming from a conspiracy theorist and doesn’t even provide a link to that.

        It is not hard to believe that Dick Cheney is a colossal dick. It is not hard to fathom that he would pull off a virtual coup. It’s not even a stretch of the imagination that he and his KBR/Halliburton buddies would commit murder. What does stretch the credulity a wee touch is the speculation without any primary, or even secondary source. Maybe the President is in danger, and that’s why he acts in ways that I don’t like. ~gasp~ Maybe the press is complicit for not reporting on this story that they’ve consistently reported on. Maybe it’s the feral bunnies that mind-control the media machine ~whirrrr~

        At heart, I guess it really does boil down to wondering what the hell Lizard wants. That’s why the request for links was made. That isn’t an odd request to make of a person posting a “weblog”.

        • lizard19

          rob, this post is most certainly thin and totally unsubstantiated. i agree more links would be helpful.

          as for the reportage not providing enough context to the oops-nuke incident, i can’t substantiate that either. it’s a subjective hunch i’m making based on how many people i have personally talked to who don’t even know what i’m talking about when i bring it up. i’m glad you’ve followed it, though, rob. kudos.

  6. Pancho

    The loonier conspiracy theorists have had a ball with this story. They “connect” it to dead birds and fish in Arkansas and all sorts of plots in high places.

    The truth is, this guy had been acting nuts for days. He was delusional, disoriented, paranoid, confabulating and destructive.

    The Wilmington police called it homicide, but claimed they didn’t know the cause of death.

    I suspect the guy had a stroke, was under a lot of pressure as well, and just looped out. He may have crawled into the dumpster to look for his “missing” briefcase or in order to get out of the freezing weather, and fell asleep and was crushed when it was mechanically unloaded into a trash truck. He may also have been wandering around, confused, and got rolled and either died in the process and was dumped, or was injured and dumped, with the trash compacter finishing him off.

    I’d wait on the coroner’s report before jumping to any conclusions.

    I’d certainly not accept any wild eyed speculation that puts this disabled guy at the heart of some vast conspiracy.

    The “fish and bird deaths” folks have all sorts of ridiculous “explanations,” for his death, and may soon get to “Area 51,” the “Trilateral Commission” or “precious bodily fluids,” if the haven’t already arrived there.

  7. lizard19

    i expected to get made fun of for this post. any kind of speculation that posits the workings of a deep state freaks people out. ridiculing the messenger is pretty standard.

    that said, i’ll try to find some more information.

  8. Kptrng

    OK, here we go – the primary tool used on our intellectual culture to prevent inquiry into the behavior of powerful people is intimidation. Most are afraid to speak up, and stuff their natural curiosity. They know they will only be ridiculed. Consequently, when faced with a story like that of the six wandering nukes or mysterious death, including the most recent, the cry “conspiracy theorist!” naturally arises. I regard those who reflexively fall back on such language to be moral zombies, so in tune to the needs of respectability in a morally bankrupt culture as to be useless tools.

    Dick Cheney may be the post ruthless man ever to hold high office – we just suffered eight years of his hands up the rear end of George W. Bush, animating the puppet. He knows the ultimate means of exercising power – that those who Challenger it have to be punished, and those who are even thinking about it need to know there are consequences. So it should be no surprise that if Cheney was indeed involved in repositioning nukes, ordinary people would back off, and courageous people might turn up in landfills. That’s the Cheney way.

    Pogo, I expect you’ll never be found in a landfill. You’re not curious enough.

    • Pogue Mahone

      Ruthless? No. Evil. And that’s the other problem with Americans. The lack the capacity to understand that our system of governance can indeed allow evil people to rise to power. We are terribly naive. We apparently think that anyone who enters politics lacks the capacity for evil. Well, we’re wrong. Slaughtering innocents abroad is evil.

    • Pogo Possum

      “Pogo, I expect you’ll never be found in a landfill. You’re not curious enough.”

      That makes absolutely no sense.

      • Kptrng

        I was being a bit cryptic. I meant that you have your mind right, don’t question official truth, and so don’t threaten power in any way. It’s safe.

        • Pogo Possum

          Does that mean we should expect to see you found in a landfill in the near future?

        • Kptrng

          It’s a metaphor! Let me be perfectly literal with you:

          You suffer from the illusion that the thoughts that occupy your head are the result of your own reasoning processes. In point of fact, almost everyone gets their ideas and opinions form authority figures. Your statement that Liz’s post here represented “conspiracy theory” is not an original thought on your part, but merely a reflex – you’ve been programmed to respond that way to anyone who challenges official truth.

          No, I won’t be harmed, as what we say here is on a silly blog, and threatens no one.


  9. Great post. So, is the fuse lit, then?

  10. Ingemar Johansson

    Did he have two bullet holes in his head like the suicidal Vince Foster?

  11. Pancho

    “Ingemar Johansson” is obviously suffering from pugilistic dementia.

    The only multiple holes in the head in the Vincent Foster case were in the craniums of those suffering delusions propagated by the liars working most notably for Richard Mellon Scaife and Jerry Falwell and the Arkansas Project.

    David Brock effectively put this bullshit to rest a decade ago.

    How’s your own head, Ingemar? Does your comb-over cover those holes?

    • Ingemar Johansson

      David Brock? Oh that’s an unbiased source. Got his book?

      Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative (ISBN 1-4000-4728-5) is a 2002 book written by former conservative journalist David Brock detailing his departure from the conservative movement. It is also the story of his coming out as a gay man. In the book, he states that he visited gay bars with Matt Drudge and other conservatives. The subtitle alludes to Barry Goldwater’s The Conscience of a Conservative, which helped define the modern conservative movement in the United States.

  12. lizard19

    Here is an article from Dave Lindorff. note he is not a conspiratainment nut like Alex Jones. Lindorff’s piece mentions the mysterious deaths, and bolsters my assertion that this incident was not given the necessary context of importance by our media. here it is in full (i’m not going to blockquote it to make it easier to read.


    The unauthorized Aug. 29/30 cross-country flight of a B-52H Stratofortress armed with six nuclear-tipped AGM-29 Advanced Cruise missiles, which saw these 150-kiloton warheads go missing for 36 hours, has all the elements of two Hollywood movies. One would be a thriller about the theft from an armed weapons bunker of six nukes for some dark and murky purpose. The lead might be played by Matt Damon. The other movie would be a slapstick comedy about a bunch of bozos who couldn’t tell the difference between a nuclear weapon and a pile of dummy warheads. The lead might be played by Adam Sandler, backed by the cast of “Police Academy III.”

    So far, the Pentagon, which has launched two separate investigations into the incident, seems to be assuming that it is dealing with the comedy version, saying that some incredible “mistake” led to nuclear weapons being taken inadvertently from a weapons-storage bunker, loaded into launch position on a bomber, and flown from North Dakota to Louisiana.

    To date, more than a month after the incident, Pentagon investigators have completely ignored a peculiar cluster of six deaths, during the weeks immediately preceding and following the flight, of personnel at the two Air Force bases involved in the incident and at Air Force Commando Operations headquarters.

    The operative assumption of the investigations appears to be that an Air Force decision to store nuclear, conventional, and dummy warheads in the same bunker and one mistake by weapons handlers initiated a chain of errors and oversights that led to the flight.

    On Sept. 23, the Washington Post, in a story based upon interviews with military officials, many of them unidentified, suggested that the first known case of nuclear warheads leaving a weapons-storage area improperly was the result of two mistakes. The first, the article suggested, was a decision by the Air Force to permit the storing of nuclear weapons in the same highly secure and constantly guarded sod-covered bunkers — known as “igloos” — as non-nuclear weapons and dummy warheads (something that had never been allowed in the past).

    The second was some as yet unidentified mistake by weapons handlers at Minot to mount six nuclear warheads onto six of the 12 Advanced Cruise Missiles that had been slated to be flown to Barksdale AFB for destruction. Those missiles and the six others, part of a group of 400 such missiles declared obsolete and slated for retirement and disassembly, should have been fitted with dummy warheads also. The Post article quotes military sources as saying that once the mistake was made, a cascade of errors followed as weapons handlers, ground crews, and the B-52 crew skipped all nuclear protocols, assuming they were dealing with dummy warheads.

    The problem with this theory is that dummy warheads don’t look the same as the real thing. The real warheads, called W80-1’s, are shiny silver, a color which is clearly visible through postage-stamp-sized windows on the nosecone covers that protect them on the missiles. In addition, the mounted warheads are encased in a red covering as a second precaution.

    Apparently the nukes (which can be set to explode at between 5 kilotons and 150 kilotons) were easily spotted by a Barksdale AFB ground crew when they went out to the plane on the tarmac hours after it landed. If the Barksdale ground crew, which had absolutely no reason to suspect it was looking at nuclear-tipped missiles, easily spotted the “error,” why did everyone at Minot miss it, as claimed?

    Clearly, whoever loaded the six nukes on one B-52 wing pylon, and whoever mounted that unit on the wing, knew or should have known that they were dealing with nukes — and absent an order from the highest authority in Washington, loading such nukes on a bomber was against all policy. The odds of randomly putting six nukes all on one pylon, and six dummies on the other, are 1:924. And how curious that the pilot, who is supposed to check all 12 missiles before flying, checked only the pylon containing the dummy warheads.

    Various experts familiar with nuclear-weapons-handling protocols express astonishment at what happened on Aug. 29 and 30. After all, over the course of more than six decades, the protocols for handling nuclear arms have called for at least two people at every step, with paper trails, bar codes, and real-time computer tracking of every warhead in the arsenal. Nothing like this has been known to have happened before. Air Force Gen. Eugene Habiger, who served as US Strategic Command chief from 1996 to 1998, told the Post, “I a have been in the nuclear business since 1966 and am not aware of any incident more disturbing.”

    Philip Coyle, a senior advisor at the Center for Defense Information who served as assistant secretary of defense in the Clinton administration, calls the incident “astonishing” and “unbelievable.” He says, “This wasn’t just a mistake. I’ve counted, and at least 20 things had to have gone wrong for this to have occurred.”

    Bruce Blair, a former Air Force nuclear launch officer who is now president of the World Security Institute, says that the explanation of the incident as laid out in the Washington Post, and in the limited statements from the Air Force and Department of Defense, which call it a “mistake,” are “incomplete.” He notes that no mention has been made as to whether the nukes in question, which had been pre-mounted on a pylon for attachment to the B-52 wing, had their PAL (permission action link) codes unlocked to make them operational, or whether a system on board the plane that would ordinarily prevent an unauthorized launch had been activated. “For all we know, these missiles could have been fully operational,” he says.

    The Air Force and Department of Defense are refusing to answer any questions about such matters.

    Meanwhile, there are those six deaths. On July 20, 1st Lt. Weston Kissel, a 28-year-old B-52 pilot from Minot, died in a motorcycle accident while on home leave in Tennessee.

    Another Minot B-52 pilot, 20-year-old Adam Barrs, died on July 5 in Minot when a car he was riding in, driven by another Minot airman, Stephen Garrett, went off the road, hit a tree, and caught fire. Airman Garrett was brought to the hospital in critical condition and has since been charged with negligent homicide.

    Two more Air Force personnel, Senior Airman Clint Huff, 29, of Barksdale AFB, and his wife Linda died on Sept. 15 in nearby Shreveport, Louisiana, when Huff reportedly attempted to pass a van in a no-passing zone on his motorcycle, and the van made a left-hand turn, striking them.

    Then there are two reported suicides, which both occurred within days of the flight. One involved Todd Blue, a 20-year-old airman who was in a unit that guarded weapons at Minot. He reportedly shot himself in the head on Sept. 11 while on a visit to his family in Wytheville, Virginia. Local police investigators termed his death a suicide.

    The second suicide, on Aug. 30, was John Frueh, a special forces weather commando at the Air Force’s Special Operations command headquartered at Hurlburt AFB in Florida. Hurlburt’s website says, “Every night, as millions of Americans sleep peacefully under the blanket of freedom,” Air Force Special Operations commandos work “in deep dark places, far away from home, risking their lives to keep that blanket safe.”

    Frueh, 33, a married father of two who had just received approval for promotion from captain to major, reportedly flew from Florida to Portland, Oregon, for a friend’s wedding. He never showed up. Instead, he called on Aug. 29, the day the missiles were loaded, from an interstate pull-off just outside Portland to say he was going for a hike in a park nearby. (It is not clear why he was at a highway rest stop as he had no car.) A day later, back in Portland, he rented a car at the airport, again calling his family. After he failed to appear at the wedding, his family filed a missing person’s report with the Portland police. The Sheriff’s Department in remote Skamania County, Washington, found Frueh’s rental car ten days later on the side of a road nearly 120 miles from the airport in a remote area of Badger Peak. Search dogs found his body in the woods. His death was ruled a suicide, though neither the sheriff’s investigator nor the medical examiner would give details. What makes this alleged suicide odd, however, is that the sheriff reports that Frueh had with him a knapsack containing a GPS locator and a videocam — odd equipment for someone intent on ending his life.

    Of course, it could be that all six of these deaths are coincidences — all just accidents and personal tragedies. But when they occur around the time six nuclear-tipped missiles go missing in a bizarre incident, the likes of which the Pentagon hasn’t seen before, one would think investigators would be on those cases like vultures on carrion. In fact, police and medical examiners in the Frueh and Blue cases say no federal investigators, whether from DOD or FBI, have called them. Worse still, because the B-52 incident got so little media attention — no coverage in most local news — none of those investigating the accidents and suicides even knew about it or about the other deaths.

    “It would have been interesting to know all that when I was examining Mr. Blue’s body,” says Virginia coroner Mike Stoker, “but no one told me about any of it or asked me about him.”

    “If we had known that several people had died under questionable circumstances, it might have affected how we’d look at a body,” says Don Phillips, the sheriff’s deputy in Washington State who investigated the Frueh death. “But nobody from the federal government has ever contacted us about this.”

    “Certainly, in a case like this, the suicides should be a red flag,” says Hans Kristensen, a nuclear-affairs expert with the Federation of American Scientists. “It’s wild speculation to think that there might be some connection between the deaths and the incident, but it certainly should be investigated.”

    • Now that was actually helpful.

    • And thank you, sincerely.

    • The Polish Wolf

      Thanks for the substantiating details. That does indeed sound a tad suspicious. There’s still obvious holes – why did they waste three years before they finally killed this guy? Why is there a Minot airman in jail, being interrogated by local police, where he probably has the most incentive to spill his guts? How was Dick going to get those bombs on to a plan capable of delivering them effectively in a first strike situation, target something in Iran, and do whatever he wanted to do with them? What really was the point? Or was there some other purpose behind shuffling nukes around?

      Nonetheless, it is a little strange and maybe there really is something behind it. Probably not, but maybe. My question is – would Joe Lieberman do something like that? Are we/you/your sources saying this was Dick’s idea, or that it was somehow inevitable due to forces behind the scenes?

  13. Pogo Possum

    Lizard, I am trying to update my notes so tell me if I have missed anything (or incorrectly added something that doesn’t belong) to your ever growing list of conspiracy theories:
    1. JFK Kennedy Assassination
    2. Diebold computers rigged the 2004 Elections
    3. 9/11 World Trade Center Cover-UP and US Government involvement

    4. John P. Wheeler III and the Neo-Con Murder Conspiracy

    Still not 100% certain about your position on the following conspiracies:
    1. Pearl Harbor Deception
    2. Faked Moon Landing
    3. CIA & Aids
    4. Aliens living in Area 51
    5. Paul is Dead
    6. Elvis Lives

    • lizard19

      your tactics of invalidating this post are both predicable and pathetic.

      do you deny that the breach of our nuclear weapons security happened? do you not find the supposedly mistaken transport of six nuclear warheads to be a bit alarming? did you read the article i just provided, quoting people who actually have worked around nuclear weapons? have you worked around nuclear weapons?

      i have a suggestion: try responding to the focus of this post, instead of muddying the waters with your little list. though i find it flattering that you’re keeping track of some of my more unguarded speculative moments, your attempt to distract from this post is obvious and not appreciated.

      • Craig Moore

        Cheer up Lizard, you may have #10 right. When they make it into a movie, who would be a better lead — George Clooney, Daniel Craig, or Matt Damon?

  14. Pogo Possum

    My response goes to the very heart of your post.

    A. You are a conspiracy believer with a long list of conspiracy beliefs that most people hold as unsupported and lacking credibility.

    B. You are proposing a new conspiracy involving the death of a former Bush administration neo-con whom you detest.

    C. It is reasonable to evaluate the credibility of ones logic, observations and theories based upon the credibility of the logic, observations and theories used in previous arguements.

    E. Your former list of conspiracies have little to no credibility therefore it is reasonable to question the credibility of this new “Wheeler was killed in a neo-con conspiracy” rant you are on.

    F. Finally, and you always avoid answering this question when I ask it: Area 51 – Aliens or no Aliens?

    • lizard19

      and you must be a coincidence theorist incapable of thinking outside the pig-pen you’ve accepted as the extent of your known reality.

      i asked you a bunch of questions and you didn’t answer one. you’re funny little alphabet refutation has no bearing on this post other than reenforcing your own sad need to discount the “conspiracies” you ridicule.

      conspiracy: An agreement between two or more persons to engage jointly in an unlawful or criminal act, or an act that is innocent in itself but becomes unlawful when done by the combination of actors.

      they happen all the time. maybe you should unload the baggage the term now carries and open that little mind of yours.

      • Pogo Possum

        I will be happy to answer yours when you answer mine (which I have asked you several times in the past): Area 51 – Aliens or no Aliens?

        • lizard19

          aliens, sure, why not. and for some reason it seems that’s all the History channel is into talking about these days.

          your turn…

          • Pogo Possum

            Thanks. Now let me just update your conspiracy theories:
            1. Aliens in Area 51 (aliens, sure, why not)
            2. JFK Kennedy Assassination (Yes)
            3. Diebold computers rigged the 2004 Elections (Yes)
            4. 9/11 World Trade Center Cover-UP and US Government involvement (Yes)
            5. John P. Wheeler III and the Neo-Con Murder Conspiracy (Yes)

            Now to answer your questions:
            #1. do you deny that the breach of our nuclear weapons security happened?
            I have no idea if it happened or didn’t happen and I don’t lose sleep over it. In fact, other than you and a hand full of conspiracy theorists, I doubt many people in this world do.

            #2 do you not find the supposedly mistaken transport of six nuclear warheads to be a bit alarming?

            See answer to question number 1

            #3. did you read the article i just provided, quoting people who actually have worked around nuclear weapons?

            Do you mean the article by fellow conspiracy advocate and uber liberal author Dave Lindorff? (JFK Assassination (Yes)…….9/11 World Trade Center Cover-UP and US Government involvement (Yes) …….Bush-is-wired” (AKA ‘The Bulge in Bushes Jacket’) conspiracy charge (Yes) (I haven’t seen that one on your list of conspiracies but remind me to ask you about it later.)
            So Yup. Read it. Boring.

            #4 have you worked around nuclear weapons?

            Had a best friend who spent lots of time below ground in a missile silo near Great Falls at one point in his military career and another who used to guard them. But, to answer your question, “No” and “the question is a red herring as in “How can you claim a neo-con was the victim of a professional hit man unless you have experience being a professional hit man.”

            So is it my turn to ask you questions?

            A. Have you ever been a professional hit man?
            B. Bush-is-wired? Yes or No

            • lizard19

              thanks, pogo. i think we’re just about done here.

              i’m a conspiracy theorist and therefore anything i say is ridiculous and unworthy of responding seriously to. got it.

              and you don’t care if nuclear devices are flying across American airspace and why.

              and Lindorff is a “conspiracy advocate” and “uber liberal” so anything his article touches on is also unworthy of a serious response.

              i am so sorry for wasting your time with this. oh, wait, no one forced you to read this drivel you have no patience for.

              so if you don’t care, why are you wasting your precious time making comments on this thread?

              • We have a Pogo-similar blogger in Rapid City. He scares the livin’ shit out of us.

              • you scare much too easily.

                i checked the site out. obviously a dittohead pretty good at web design. but no comments to speak of and probably no readership either. just another limbaugh wannabe.

                pogo has good comments from time to time. i know that j-girl values his opinions. we don’t fear anyone here. there is no reason for fear in a free society. we all need differing opinions to challenge our thinking and to sharpen our focus. the right is not the real enemy here anyway. corporate interests and the wealthy who use partisan rancor to divert us away from democratic principles are the real enemy in this country.

              • Pogo Possum

                You are right PBear, Larry scares way to easily.

                And thank you for the kind words. I know you and I “have at it” on occasion but I do respect you and your issues. While we may disagree at times, your issues come from your heart and your compassion for others and not from some fantasy conspiracy world that others seem to spend far to much time.

              • likewise possum, while we tangle passionately, good to keep in mind our mutual sincerity toward doing good notwithstanding, our differing approaches.

              • lizard19

                pogo, you don’t know me, and yet you say this:

                your issues come from your heart and your compassion for others and not from some fantasy conspiracy world that others seem to spend far to much time.

                again, you are now questioning my compassion for others, and you don’t know me or what i do in my life, you are simply judging me based on blogging.

                so why don’t you quit being a pest in this thread and kindly fuck off. i’ve put up with enough of your bullshit.

            • #1. do you deny that the breach of our nuclear weapons security happened?
              I have no idea if it happened or didn’t happen and I don’t lose sleep over it. In fact, other than you and a hand full of conspiracy theorists, I doubt many people in this world do.

              Ignorance is a remarkable poor defense for stupid opinion, Pogo. Of course it happened. As for people caring about it, one of the Air Force review recommendations to Congress stemming from the incident was the shuttering of Minot Air Force base, and the curtailment or complete removal of the nuclear arms mission from the surrounding states. Last I checked, Montana borders North Dakota, and Malmstrom has a nuclear arms mission. You don’t think any butts puckered in Great Falls over this event?

              But you just keep telling yourself that ‘no one cares’. And I can’t wait to hear you tell your GF friends that ‘no one cares’ when Congress pushes the DOD to finally close shop at Malmstrom.

              • Pogo Possum

                And if DOD ever does close shop at Malmstorm it will not be because of the a fictional neo-con hit job or other “issues” lizard raised in his little conspiracy rant above.

          • Pancho

            We get the “History” channel as part of a cable news package that includes Free Speech TV and Link TV, so we can watch Democracy Now, Thom Hartman, etc.

            There’s not a hell of a lot of history on it. When we first got it I watched it and found that the few programs that it produced were usually loaded with endless speculation and repetition. Every new segment after commercials breathlessly repeated much of the immediately prior one. But the “Historical Revisionist” channel might be a better name. It’s tabloid TV, masquerading as legitimate fare. I expect if I’d watched long enough it would have an “Elvis on Mars” program.

            This is a channel that has apparently never heard of Occam’s Razor, constantly overlooking the obvious, accepting fanciful explanations for the simplest questions.

            I only notice it now as I’m clicking nonstop through the menu from PBS past “Sobongo” (whatever the hell that is) and the “Prostate Health Channel,” on my way to the Daily Show.

  15. Hey Liz: Was Flight 93 shot down? Where was Wheeler then?

    • I don’t spend any time on conspiracy issues myself but I am glad someone does. Good work liz.
      Given the sad shape of credibility in govt anymore by ordinary citizens combined with growing mistrust of corporate controlled media, we need more -not less – inquiry by citizens.

    • lizard19

      your comment, like Pogo’s comments, are a very pathetic attempt to discredit me personally for speculating on something that’s quite serious for everyone; nuclear weapons security, the attention of the media, and it how this might relate to the mysterious death of John P. Wheeler.

      this post is not about me being a “conspiracy theorist” but if your little mind feels safer by ridiculing me, then go ahead and spin your wheels all you want.

  16. Kptrng

    Way too easy, Mr. Kurtz – way too easy. Anyone can sit in the bushes and do potshots like that. What kind of psychic reward do you get from such behavior?

    • The potshot is aimed squarely at the Bush regime. W has already admitted ordering torture; the Wheeler story is intriguingly interwoven.

      Loughner is a mirror just like Hasan and other red state shooters are. The Right is complicit by defunding education and replacing it with FOX and video games so the sale of arms sustains its feeders.


    • Pogo Possum

      Larry is on your side Kptrng. He thinks there may be a link between Wheeler and Flight 93.

      And we go further down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

      • Kptrng

        PP – your reflexive dismissal indicates that you haven’t really considered the matter in any depth. I mentioned above that you are programmed to behave in this manner, but forgot to mention the programming tool: fear of ridicule.

        The fear spreads like a virus. You may harbor suspicions but don’t give voice to them due to this fear. Instead you go to great pains to ridicule others. This indicates discomfort within you, otherwise you’d just leave it alone.

        So why not go down the rabbit hole. What scares you?

  17. Craig Moore

    Pogo, don’t forget flight TWA 800 and Clinton’s cover-up.

  18. hey lizard: this guy is a nutcase; but, I thought I’d get your reaction.

    • lizard19

      i ran across that piece, and filed it under i hope it’s bunk.

      as for your other link, i think your initial assessment is correct.

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