No wonder he isn’t in office

by Pete Talbot

Bob Brown is a moderate Republican. He ran against Gov. Brian Schweitzer in 2004 but on the heels of Gov. Judy Martz’ abysmal Republican administration, he lost. Before that he served as Montana Secretary of State, and in the state legislature for close to 26 years.

He has a reasoned guest column in the Missoulian. He says that Montana legislators shouldn’t be packing heat in the state Capitol and that 30-round clips should be illegal. This from a card-carrying member of the NRA, a hunter and the owner of a boatload of guns.

His arguments against pistol packing legislators and 30-round clips make sense. But making sense isn’t the strong suit of Republican legislators this session. Republicans said that jobs and the economy were the #1 priority in 2011, but instead they’re more interested in making county sheriffs the last word in law enforcement (SB 114), repealing Montana’s renewable energy standards (HB 244), halting a patient’s right to die with dignity (SB 116), increasing the burden — reducing the size — of the Montana Supreme Court (HB 245), stemming our overwhelming illegal immigration problem (HB 178), calling on the US to withdraw from the UN (SJ 2), prohibiting public employees from serving in the legislature (HB 145) … well, it’s a long list of pedantic bills.

It’s a damn shame that the state’s Republican Party has thrown the likes of Bob Brown under the bus.

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  1. mr benson

    I supported Bob Brown; liked him far better than Marc Racicot, too. He’s not in office because he had to carry a blonde 500 lb gorilla around during the campaign. Bob and Dave Lewis, the ticket, sure looks a lot more capable and honest and desireable in retrospect. But after Judy’s hoof n mouth problems, even with her huge surplus and steady economic progress, glib snake, er oil from coal salesman promising cheap drugs from Canada looked better, apparently.

    “Does your conscience bother you, tell the truth!”

    It’s a damn shame the people of Montana couldn’t see through the charade that is the current mess…in the legislature and in the Governor’s office both.

    But that’s the escalation, that even many here call for, Pete. Leftists not left enough, righties not right enough. For every move to the extreme on one side, an equal and opposite move on the other.

    • Ingemar Johansson

      Shorter version.

      People who stand in the middle of the road tend to get run over?

      • Pogue Mahone

        Not if you’re smart enough to be on the median, dumba**! What do you use for brains when your talking points are used up? BTW, people who eat enough beans never run out of talking points, right?

  2. Ingemar Johansson

    Stolen from Hot Air Blog.

    {What if the next argument comes in the form of the Gentleman from Vermont saying that 30 was too low of a bar, and perhaps 20 was more in line with our “needs?” It’s only a short hop from there to saying that only single shot weapons are required with each round needing to be manually expelled and replaced directly into the chamber.

    “Hey, we’re not taking away your guns. That’s your right! We just don’t want you firing more than one shot at a time.”

    I normally don’t care much for slippery slope arguments, but this is one where I’ll gladly jump on board. Giving the federal government the right to limit the capacity of magazines to any number of rounds concedes their right to limit the capacity to any number of rounds, including one. Or, perhaps, zero.}

    • Ingemar –
      If the government won’t let me have a Stinger Missile, how do I know they won’t be after my M60 next, then my AK-47, and then my twelve gauge, and finally my pocket knife? Your instinct against slippery slope arguments is right on – stick with that.

      If you can’t defend yourself with a 12 round clip, a little time at the firing range will do you more good than another 18 rounds.

      • Ingemar Johansson

        Slipping from a 30 rnd mag to a Stinger is a hellofa slide.

        • Pogue Mahone

          Stinkymar, just HOW many shots do you NEED?! Look, dufus, I’m old fashioned. I use a double barreled Rossi .12 ga. for home defense. For back up, I’ve got my Colt .45 with 300 grain PMC ammo. I figure if two don’t do the trick, I can always reload! You must be one pathetic gun nut if you can’t do the job with two. In fact, you’re SO bad, you better rely on the pohhhleece for your defense needs, loser. Me, I’ll handle things myself thank you very much. Mr. Bad Guy, meet Mr. Rossi! Oh, your motto? Mr. Bad Guy, wait ’til I call the pohleece please! And anyway, Stinkymar, just how many dudes you think you might need to kill ANYway? Yeah, yeah. I know. You’re one of them guys that think Obama’s going to make us all white slaves. But really, you got that much ammo to make a difference? Oh, and for the record, list your combat bonyfeeds. You SOUND for all the world to be the next Audy Murphy, so you MUST have lots of experience under fire.

    • besides being unconstitutional, laws restricting the arms choices of law-abiding citizens do nothing to prevent arms from getting into the hands of the determined criminal or criminally insane. they will always find a way to get them.

      it makes no sense and accomplishes nothing. as far as making america as safe as canada or england, that horse has left the barn about 300 years ago. this land was taken away from native americans by gunpowder and it’s government was wrested away from england with gunpowder. guns and freedom are a combination that forms the underpinning belief of too many americans. hell, one might almost say that the essence of america is the freedom of gun ownership.

      i am not a big gun user, but i know a losing cause when i see one. and gun control, i am afraid, is just such a cause.

      • Those laws already exist, problembear. I can’t buy a Stinger missile, I can’t buy a claymore, I can’t buy a very-high speed Gatling gun (like a Vulcan, say). All of these would actually constitute the weapons needed by a ‘well regulated milita’, so either your constitutionality argument makes no sense, or we are already in severe violation thereof.

        Moreover, I don’t think these restrictions lead to a slippery slope nor that one slightly further is impossible. Yes, a shooter will always find something to shoot with. But I think by looking at other countries you can note that their shooters tend to attack with what is easier at hand. If a 12 round mag is much easier to come by than a 30 round, a truly deranged shooter will almost certainly use that. In a country like China, someone going on a killing spree will likely use knives, which are easy at hand. I have no doubt mass killings will continue, but we can limit their lethality by restricting the tools available to killers.

        • i am with craig. put the energy of reform into screening nut-jobs instead of going after the tools.

          but, on a personal note, i am celebrating pw.

          finally found that i have an opinion of mine that manages to get to the right of you! that is tough to do.

          • The Polish Wolf

            I was chuckling at that, too. I agree that screening may be more effective, I merely think that restricting magazine size is no less constitutional than the various other restrictions the government imposes.

  3. Craig Moore

    Pete: “His arguments against pistol packing legislators and 30-round clips make sense.”

    Actually they don’t because it doesn’t address the millions now in circulation. Such remarks are empty gestures.

    A real argument, if one is to be made, is to require proof of certified firearms training and psychological testing before allowing the sale or other transfer of handguns. As you know this is a federally controlled matter. The federal background check on Loughner was abysmal. Will Obama step up with a real proposal in the SoTU speech? My guess is No.

    Brown is a nice guy. Like most of them, he didn’t finish first. Neither Party will not back a loser at the polls.

    • petetalbot

      Craig says about a ban on 30-round clips, “it doesn’t address the millions now in circulation. Such remarks are empty gestures.” Not sure I buy into that logic. Lots of nukes scattered around the world, too. Guess we should just keep making them.

      Also, isn’t your last line a double negative? “Neither Party will not back a loser at the polls.”
      So both parties back losers? You could be right.

      • It’s like saying that ‘we can’t get rid of the problem immediately, so why start?’ Obviously there won’t be any immediate effects, but for mass shooters in the future, the inconvenience of getting a hold of an extended clip might encourage them to just use a regular one. Small comfort that only a dozen or so shots will be fired at innocent people instead of thirty, but if one of the shots that doesn’t get fired is destined for a nine year old girl, I would say its worth it.

      • Craig Moore

        Pete, sorry about the neg neg. That’s what I get for talking on the phone and typing at the same time. Remove the “not.”

        My point about the mags is that ending their manufacture will not separate the kooks from easily accessing the ones already in circulation… therefore, an empty gesture towards curbing the problem especially since a new mag could be added within 3 seconds. The problem is separating the kooks from the weapons, not the mag size.

      • Craig Moore

        BTW Pete, here is the federal form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

        Seems to me that the feds didn’t do the background check on Loughner before his purchase.

    • I have to agree with Craig on this one. High Cap mags are widely distributed and traded, many at gun shows and other unregulated venues. Consider also that many of the shooters, whack job wannabe shooters and political intimidators here of late have already stockpiled weapons. A ban on manufacture and import is quite literally useless. Magazines can be and have been manufactured in home workshops to any with access to a small metal press and a spring. (And don’t tell me it isn’t done. You can find instructions online, as well as DIY instructions for fully auto receivers.) A ban on sale is likewise useless as long as there are gun shows and private party sales. Unlike China and Europe there is a long history of weapons sale and manufacture in the US. Supply is very high.

      Anyone motivated to mayhem will figure out how to accomplish that. TPW’s argument about limiting tools for destruction goes only as far as the intent of the destroyer. That tends to be why terror attacks work.

      Personally, I’m favoring Larry Kurtz’s pocket book solutions. I’m also convinced that we need higher reporting standards on gun ownership and purchase. Craig is correct. Loehner never should have had that Glock in the first place.

      • Craig Moore

        The Virginia Tech shooter killed 33 people with a Glock 19 and a 22 with standard mags. Like Loughner he was a whackjob, but he got by the background check. http://www.therationale.com/virginia-tech-shooters-background-check-did-not-include-mental-health-issues/

        Anything less than preventing the mentally/socially challenged from coming into possession of firearms is a waste of time. Work the problem!

        • JC

          “Work the problem!”

          HOw about we do something to prevent people from becoming mentally ill in the first place? Or having adequate treatment for them when they do? That’s seems to be a precursor problem to them acquiring weapons.

          • Craig Moore

            You mean like keeping the potentially unhealthy ones from being born?

            BTW, the Virginia Tech shooter was sent to a pysch hospital: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/virginiatechshooting/main2701164.shtml?tag=wc2702674

            On Dec. 13, 2005, a magistrate ordered Cho to undergo an evaluation at Carilion St. Albans, a private psychiatric hospital. The magistrate signed the order after an initial evaluation found probable cause that Cho was a danger to himself or others as a result of mental illness.

            The next day, according to court records, doctors at Carilion conducted further examination and a special justice, Paul M. Barnett, approved outpatient treatment.

            A medical examination conducted Dec. 14 reported that that Cho’s “affect is flat. … He denies suicidal ideations. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment are normal.”

            The court papers indicate that Barnett checked a box that said Cho “presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness.” Barnett did not check the box that would indicate a danger to others.

  4. Haven’t we learned that prohibition doesn’t work? A hefty excise tax on handguns, assault weapons, and extended clips will slow access to those least intellectually equipped to abuse them. More palatable to the redstaters that haven’t already ammoed-up, too.

    • Pogue Mahone

      Mr. Larry Putz, how is it that YOU consider yourself to be “at least intellectually equipped” and the rest of us not to be? Just learn to shoot back, and then you won’t be a victim, weinnie, and you also might learn to stop whining. It’s useless to attempt to regulate guns. Just consider senseless violence as population control, which in essence it is. Rats starting to devour themselves. The nazis understand this perfectly.




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