I’m afraid the anti-gay, anti-dinosaur crowd is winning

By Duganz

Back in 2001 I read an article about some people trying to get “Intelligent Design” taught in classes alongside science. I laughed it off because any five year old can disprove the Biblical story of creation. Here’s a script you’ve surely heard:

Mother: What’s your favorite dinosaur Billy?

Billy: By answering that question, Mother, I will be disproving the Biblical creation story because it of course makes no mention of dinosaurs, but instead begins with the creation of man, which we know didn’t happen because we’ve found dinosaurs much older than man. It’s called carbon dating, it’s a complex analysis of bones or tissue at the atomic level, counting… well, honestly, it’s a bit complex, Mother, so I will conclude that my dinosaur preference is meaningless, but I do enjoy our talks.

Okay, maybe it’s different and the kid actual names a dinosaur and doesn’t give a monologue like he’s in an Ayn Rand novel. But the point is that I didn’t think these people were a threat. No one, I thought, was stupid enough to elect people who thought things like that.

I felt the same way when I would see Fred Phelps on TV. No one is that stupid to believe him. God hates fags? Who actually reads Leviticus 18:22 or 20:13 and thinks, “Sure. Of course”?

Well… I’ve underestimated the stupidity, cruelty, and ignorance of the average person.

HB516, which has been talked about plenty, will legitimize the discrimination of LGBT individuals for religious zealots who enjoy the Bible when they can use it for gain (hatin’ those gays!), but never mention the parts that give credence to the unpopular beliefs (Lot’s daughters rape him? Noah was a drunk? Genesis chapter one is completely different than Genesis chapter two and yet tells the same story? Jesus kills a fig tree?)

But what’s more important and more terrifying is that these people are winning.

And before anyone gets out the “We’re not all liberals!” flag, just remember this: Neither was Goldwater when he got on TV and said that he loved his gay grandson.

So, yeah, I’m a pretty socially liberal guy who has kissed at least five other dudes (that’s off the top of my head, maybe more… I drank a lot in college). But when it comes down to it we all know that the government has no right to tell us who or how to love. They should stay out of our bedrooms, our homes, and our lives as much as possible.

I’m starting to ramble and get angry just thinking about how the Session has gone so far with these “small government” people in power. I hope Brian has a lot of pens handy. He’s got some vetoing to do if he has a modicum of respect for personal rights.

Let’s hear it folks… what’s everyone thinking?

  1. lizard19

    GREAT post, duganz!

    seriously, this post has everything: a cuddly t-rex diggin’ the bible, a totally bad-ass monologue Rand-style, your youthful naivete about the degree of stupidity that exists among religious zealots.

    but i have a problem with you depicting the carnal sex act Lot experienced with his two daughter in the cave as “rape”

    clearly, under pending legislation, the newly defined meaning of “rape” would no longer include getting fucked while unconscious from booze or drugs. and i think that should apply retroactively.

    because that’s what happened to Lot, right? his daughters wanted to get knocked up, so they got him drunk then screwed him. correct me if i’m wrong.

    it’s sad to think that, if Lot were alive today, and instead of getting not-raped by his daughters, he got not-raped by his wife, and decided that he wanted a divorce, he would be compelled under proposed legislation to endure 10 pricey counseling sessions before divorce.

    it’s enough to make a man long for the good old days, when a man could murder his wife with stone-blunt trauma for infidelity.

    • I’ve never underestimated the degree of stupidity among zealots. I have underestimated the electorate. I thought that Pat Robertson’s loss in the Republican primary way back when, the collapse of “The Moral Majority,” and so on was enough to convince people that the religious right is evil.

      Bachman should be enough to convince people against the RR crowd. But no. We get Bible holding dinosaurs.

      Who knows a good doctor who offers cheap lobotomies?

      • lizard19

        my bad, you didn’t say you underestimated the zealots, but the “average person.” i wish there was a more substantial distinction between zealots and the broader electorate. but their side mobilizes better and wins. low turn out is more pervasive on the potentially left side of the political spectrum.

      • Well Duganz – IMO there is no conflict between evolution and creationism.

        The bible doesn’t tell us by what methods God created the earth – nor does it say that 65 million years didn’t pass before he created man (post-dinosaur).

        I haven’t been to mass in about 30 years, but I’m pretty sure your interpretation of Soddom and Gomorrah isn’t the whole story – LOL

        • Yes it does. Genesis 2 says God made man from dust and clay. That’s what it says. Seeing as you’re not made from dust and clay, the Bible is wrong.

          • JC

            Well, he is made of dust and clay–it’s just that the dust and clay has been recycled countless times through the belly of earthworms and cows. ;-)

          • Duganz – we are all made of star stuff, doncha know? But more importantly – Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 don’t even agree with one another. This isn’t a hard thing to discover; the assumption that Genesis was meant literally is therefore unfounded.

            • Wolf: I know that. But Coobs said, “The bible doesn’t tell us by what methods God created the earth.” It does. I’m not saying it’s right (it’s not). I was only proving that Coobs hasn’t even read the book he’s defending.

              • Your interpretation –

                I had a drug problem as a child – I was DRUG to church, CCD classes, and more religious functions than I can remember.

                A week in your time is not the same as a week in Genesis –

                Dust thou art and to dust shalt thy return isn’t the dust you wipe off your keyboard on your computer –

                As I say – there is no conflift between creationism & evolution IMO – but that’s just MY interpretation.

                For the record though – I believe in evolution – Darwins finches proved it – plus a lot of other things.

                Does that mean God didn’t use evolution? No.

              • The Bible only tells by what methods God created the world if one takes it literally, which is obviously impossible. Symbolic stories from Daniel to Jesus are well evidenced in the Bible.

                To believe that the intent or original belief regarding genesis was a literal one is to assume that the ancient Jews hadn’t read their own books, and is akin to saying the point of Animal Farm is not to trust pigs that spend too much time with dogs.

  2. Pogue Mahone

    WELCOME TO REALITY, DUDE! I’ve been fighting these bastards for TWENTY FRICKIN’ YEARS! And now you dudes are catchin’ up! But hey, better late than never. I have been a pariah for the last twenty years too for pointing out the fact that these no good bastards are NOT fake nazis, but REAL nazis! Now, delete this if you want like little peebeer does. But if you don’t, I will educate you.

    • I don’t delete Foos. I don’t delete anyone. And to be fair, twenty years ago I was 6.

    • lizard19

      i think we get dogma is dangerous. i don’t see how that has anything to do with the term “nazis” other than amplifying the discourse to counterproductive proportions.

      let’s try to keep this conversation about Biblically approved incest, dinosaurs, and fag hatred classy, ok?

      • Pogue Mahone

        Bullshit, dude. Do you even KNOW what a nazi is? You are EXACTLY why we’re in the shape that we’re in! You have NO understanding of fascism! Study fascism a bit BEFORE opening pie hole! You see, that’s why I’m a pariah.

        • Lizard

          nazis and fascism are not interchangeable terms.

          maybe you should educate me about what the difference is between “fake” nazis and “real” nazis.

          • Rob Kailey

            Can’t do that, but I can tell you this. Fascists and fascism is the unholy alliance between government social engineering and corporate profit obedience to that thing. Larry may be well over the top here, but he’s right about that part.

      • Pogue Mahone

        p.s. Before you even HEARD of creationism, I was fighting it! Give me your address and I’ll send you the newspaper articles! Or call Eric Feaver! But for god’s SAKE, dude, get a friggin’ clue!

        • carfreestupidity

          Wow man… Your like THE original… I bet you were there when Dylan went electric, saw Cheech n Chong played the Troubadour, and served Elvis his last peanut butter and fried banana sandwich.

  3. Pogue Mahone

    And, Duganz, it WASN’T 2001 here in Montana. It started in 1993, when the Golden Triangle was developing their curriculim. How do I know. I WAS THERE! Started with some dumbass book the Fundis had called something like Of Pets and Pandas.

    • Pogue Mahone

      Oops. Of Pandas and People. I fought the fundis, militias, racists, wise users here in Montana when you dudes were shittin’ yellow!

      • lizard19

        i admire your stamina, but question your effectiveness.

        • Pogue Mahone

          Well, if I DON’T get deleted all the time, I would love to share tales of effectiveness. Somehow, lefties are scared to death of folks that don’t fit the lefty mold. And that’s real sad. They seem to have forgotten the history of the lefty movement in this country completey. Lefties weren’t ALWAYS fern bar sandal wearin’ hippies and peaceful protestors. Actually, lefties and commies were the shock troops in the twenties and thirties. They were ANYTHING but sandal wearin’ peaceniks.

      • carfreestupidity

        Don’t you realize thats no excuse MAN… Fighting facisism is a higher calling man… I started when I was like… Old enough to walk… Walked right up to Kennedy, MAN, and said “FUCK your Cuban missle crisis man, those cubans are our brothers.”

        Course then my bummer square of a mother forced me to wash my mouth out with soap. But it was worth it… Speaking truth to power since I was in UTERO… Time you peacniks caught up.

  4. Buzz Feedback

    Dinosaur Train!
    Dinosaur Train!

    We’re gonna ride
    Ride …

    .. the Dinosaur Train.

  5. Lt. Col (Ret, Army) Richard Liebert

    Get ready for ‘DennyCare’ friends, where if you don’t like science (same science that creates weapons of unbelievable lethality I can tell you) that provides wondrous cures, surgical procedures, instruments and medicines, I invite the ‘baggers’ to turn back to blood-letting, leaches and how about some snake-healers, huh?

  6. Pronghorn

    “I hope Brian has a lot of pens handy. He’s got some vetoing to do if he has a modicum of respect for personal rights.

    Let’s hear it folks… what’s everyone thinking?”

    A couple weeks ago I flashed on this idea for We, the People to each send the guv a red pen for his veto tasks. Now, maybe he doesn’t actually veto with a red pen and that’s just the English teacher in me coming out; perhaps any pen would send a symbolic message. So there’s what I’m thinking–once the bad bills (unconstitutional, morally bankrupt, exploitive of people, animals, the environment, etc.) have passed the second chamber, we each send B.S. a pen and ask him to veto such-and-such a bill.

  7. Steve W

    That is a good idea. What we need is a central clearing house for bull shit bills so we can follow up and follow through.

  8. Craig Moore

    How about maneuvering around these legislative efforts?

    Have Missoula incorporate broad anti-discrimination provisions into contractual clauses with vendors and in all permit issuance and renewals. A clarifying statement could be added to the broad provision that would say “including but not limited to [ list of examples]” No new protected class would be created thereby undermining the legislative bill.

  9. Ryan Emmett Morton

    HB516 passed without the 2/3 majority. Let’s hope everyone gets a fair hearing in the Senate.

  10. Rep. Ellie Hill tweeted today that Gov. Schweitzer has already said he’ll veto this awful bill. Thanks Gov!

  11. plus there is always the state supreme court if brian falters. i don’t see the justices nullifying a duly formed city ordinance with the kind of language these paranoid hillbillies have concocted. it wouldn’t hold up for long under legal scrutiny with any decent plaintiff’s attorney. and i imagine the city of missoula and bozeman can find good ones.

  12. Chuck

    Here’s one for the Democrats to take hold of: reducing gasoline prices that are set to cripple the economy this summer. I know oil and how the market works.
    The increase in crude oil price is putting our economic recovery at risk and there is no physical or economic reason for the run up. The price of oil is being driven up by the speculators.
    The President needs to get the word out that he is willing to release oil from the strategic reserve . We don’t have to sell any oil from the reserve, just mention it and watch the oil market plummet. Please tell Messina to pass this along.
    It’s time to play hardball with the elite and if they need help getting the word out I will advise.

    • JC

      “The price of oil is being driven up by the speculators.”

      If you call those who are pushing the price of gas up to $4/gallon by the next election–in order to undermine Obama–speculators, so be it.

      Except they are speculating on the next presidency, not the price of oil.

  13. Just for fun I visited creationmuseum.org (the source of that lovely image), and found out that they are having a Christian dinosaur dig in Glendive this summer. If I were an enterprising journalist with a spare thousand bucks in my pocket I don’t think I’d be able to resist!

  14. next i hear the christianationists are going to reconstruct the tower of babel in helena, pw

    • Craig Moore

      Pbear, the snark and insults aimed at Christians is just another form of bigotry.

      Don’t forget that there are Christian faiths where gays openly serve as clergy.

  15. In all honesty I don’t think it takes a five year old or dinosaurs to ‘disprove’ the story of creation. As Duganz already pointed out, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 already contradict one another – they describe the same events in different, mutually exclusive ways (i.e., woman was either created after man, or at the same time. It can’t be both). It’s pretty clear, then, that the Semitic people who wrote it didn’t take it to mean literal truth. Why some modern day Christians choose to believe that two contradictory claims are both divinely inspired and intended to be historically accurate I cannot possibly fathom.

  16. Reinhard

    It is interesting that you attack religion and support evolution in the same breath.

    So, what does Charles Darwin’s theory say about homosexuals?

    • JC

      Doesn’t say jack about homosexuals.

      Then again it doesn’t say anything about abortions, vasectomies, tubal ligations, or menopause either.

      Oh, and I have a lot of gay and lesbian friends who are raising wonderful families. The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.

    • Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species” doesn’t say anything about homosexuality. Darwin was talking strictly about the concepts of how higher orders of life come into existence (Ex: Why man and not the cockroach?). Darwin believed that natural selection, and the environment surrounding organisms, led to more “fit” organisms, fitness being how well an organisms functions within an environment.

      Man is extremely fit because we can make fire in the cold, and A/C for those hot days. Few organisms do so well at this. (Have you ever seen a pig’s attempt at fire? Terrible!)

  17. Ryan Emmett Morton

    Some good federal news.


    About time the Obama administration got on board with defending LGBT people from discrimination. Go equal protection!

  18. Pogue Mahone

    Guess that there’s a reason why this site is simply a circle jerk, or more appropriately a circle of jerks, and Cowgirl’s site is viral! You guys are pathetic losers! Hey, that’s the TRVHT. Buh BYE, losers! Off to the big leagues!

  19. Ryan Emmett Morton

    From: http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/article_81b7d284-4034-11e0-abe4-001cc4c002e0.html

    -Rep. Krayton Kerns of Laurel poked at Whitefish Rep. Derek Skees for voting in favor of motion that day to move a tabled Democratic bill out of committee. The bill would have protected “gender identity or expression, sexual orientation” in the Montana Human Rights Act, and Skees was one of four Republicans to vote for the motion.

    “You were my hero,” Kerns said, holding back a laugh. “Now you’re my heroine.”-

    Homophobia at it’s greatest hubris.

  20. If anyone is interested in interesting theories as to the allegory behind Genesis 2 – Elaine Pagels’ “Adam, Eve, and the Serpent” is an interesting look at the ways the story has been interpreted through history. Daniel Quinn’s theory in “Ishmael” is also interesting.

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