Good Old American Racism and the First Amendment

by jhwygirl

This sickens me.

I’d like to think our forefathers thought of freedom of speech as something done in some sort of intelligent way. Did they really think this is what they meant to allow? The ranting of a bunch of idiots?

I must admit, I have real problems grasping at trying to find any way to condone this activity (or this). Part of it is my inability to wrap my brain around hatred like this. On a basic level, life is too short to pollute myself like these people.

But in the same order, I want to somehow make them stop. I don’t need to hear anything more. I just want them to shut the hell up.

I just wish I knew how.

  1. Matt

    All I can say is… Holy shit.

    And 2 US Congressmen there… Is this what we’re coming to?

    • I know. I sat here dumbfounded for quite a bit of time. Is this America?

      I don’t want it to be my America.

      • Steve W

        Humans seem to have the capacity for both great compassion and for intense hatred.

        it’s a problem all over.

        And of course it’s the crux of the free speech issue.

        however, I opt toward more freedom than less, even though it means having to suffer fools and bigots. The alternative is worse.

  2. kptrng

    America is a place that gives us all abundant opportunity to feel morally superior. These folks are near the bottom of the courage heap, but the people who silently walk in and out in front of them, hearing the insults and jeers, heads held high, ignoring the noise, are close to the top. Also close to the top I find former CIA agent Ray McGovern, who stood up and turned his back back to Hillary Clinton as she spoke. He was wearing a T-Shirt that said “Veterans for Peace.” He was brutally arrested. And I mean “brutally.”

    We have “freedom of speech” only insofar as our free speech does not threaten power. If our speech mattered, as does Wikileaks, as did Bradley Manning’s, as did McGovern’s, we are quickly shown that this supposed freedom is a mere illusion.

  3. lizard19

    that was hard to watch. but thank you, j-girl, for posting it.

    i’ve been trying to figure out how to approach a post about racism since the initial week of the Egyptian uprising, when the first reports of looting (specifically, the museum where the mummies are kept) started getting amplified by our corporate news and taken as uncontested fact by some.

    at the time i offered an alternative reading of those reports, and i was right. the attempt to frame the violence that started happening as coming from the opposition movement proved to be wrong. instead much of the violence came from regime-loyal provocateurs.

    i also noted how reports of looting after Katrina caused the initial response to be more “security” oriented instead of humanitarian oriented.

    watching that awful clip makes the poem i’m about to share seem almost tame. that said, i must warn everyone this poem uses an abhorrent word gratuitously. to provide a bit more context, here’s a comment from max bucks (which i’m sure mr. tokarski can verify) referring to the chances of Egyptians disposing of their dictator:

    Egyptians are a savage race doomed to live in ignorance and poverty forever. From the pharaohs of prehistory, down to Alexander the Great, the Roman conquest, the caliphs of Islam, the Crusaders, and modern colonial times, the Egyptian masses have always lived under the heel of an oppressive government. Whether the oppressor is of foreign or domestic origin makes no difference. Whether the oppressor is supported by outside money or by internal theft makes no difference, either. The result is always the same for Egypt.

    The current rioting and looting by Egyptian mobs will lead nowhere. Egypt cannot have any stable, modern form of democratic government because the Egyptian masses are savages. There is simply no useable human material to work with in Egypt. Thus, Egyptians will continue to live like dogs and be treated like dogs. It is a pattern of history that has remained unbroken for thousands of years.

    this trash and other pieces of bigotry and racism is what inspired the following poem (which is part of a larger work):


    Niggers of the sand
    Those mummy-looting savages
    Are unrestrained heathens
    Prone to violent ravages

    So Christian soldier steel
    Replace this flaccid flesh
    We must kill these niggers
    Or they’ll fuck our race to death

    Look at them in Egypt
    In Yemen and New Orleans
    Niggers around the world
    Possess violent latent feelings

    That if not choked will scream
    That if not chained will strike
    Threatening our epidermal glow—
    This glorious Caucasian light

  4. carfreestupidity

    Wow. ‘Merica… Fuck yeah!

    The educational benefits of FoxNews at it’s finest.

  5. I watched all 5:52 of it, and it didn’t sicken me.

    Those protesters are holding up signs that say ‘God Bless America’ and things like ‘Equality for Women’ which are probably terrible to view for a lib I guess –

    They are yelling ‘Go Back Home’ which doesn’t make a lot of sense, since those people obviously didn’t fly in from Saudi Arabia, but it’s not sickening.

    They are yelling that The Prophet Mohammed was a fraud, and that is correct – considering that he said to either convert the non-believers, or kill them. His words are the ones twisted and used by the radical muslims to justify killing.

    Are you of the opinion jwhygirl, that the group protesting was NOT simply exercising free speech ?

    Were you sickened when Cindy Sheehan said that America was the biggest terrorist organization in the world, and that President Bush was worse than Osama Bin Laden ?

    Or maybe is it OK if Liberals only are allowed to protest ?

    • carfreestupidity

      Your not a progressive if you tollerate hatred.

      The difference between the examples you use and the video is that the people like Cindy Sheehanwere protesting government policies, not protesting against a specific segment of the population. I’m assuming you find nothing offensive with protests staged by the Aryan Nations or the KKK that espouse hatred for Jews and non-whites?

      Maybe you didn’t notice, more likely ignored, the protesters also call the Americans in the video “terrorists” and say things like “why don’t you go home and beat your wife,” and call them “child molesters” and “perverts.” Or the councilwoman call the gathering “pure unadulterated evil” and that she “knew plenty of marines that would be happy to help ‘these’ terrorists to an early grave,” explicitly referring to the group of Americans they are protesting against.

      Do you not hear the hatred in the protectors voice? Did you not hear some of the protesters trying to provoke some Muslims to come over to them and fight?

    • Actual I got annoyed by Cindy Sheehan almost immediately. But she was a grieving mother who was blinded by sadness–a tragic figure. These people are just idiots who lack basic understanding.

      Also, Eric, if you’re throwing Muhammad under the bus make sure to hit Jesus with the back tires. People love twisting his words to kill abortion doctors.

    • Eric, if you aren’t sickened by people screaming at little kids, you’re not just conservative, you’re heartless. You know, it’s okay to agree with a liberal on something as basic as “Don’t scream at and intimidate little kids just because of their religion”.

      I am willing to bet that no one here agrees with the ICNA’s actual policies. They are overtly sexist and are on uncomfortably familiar terms with some very violent people. But you don’t see crowds of liberals hurling insults at Christian charities that are similarly fundamentalist. Probably because most thinking people know that hurling insults and attacking people’s beliefs only makes them cling to them more firmly.

      And Duganz – that’s a weird equivalence. ‘Jesus’ as believed in by Christians never killed anyone nor ordered any killing. Muhammad as detailed in the hadith was a military leader (among other things) and did. Granted, they both inspired a great deal of violence, but there is a difference between the two.

      • “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

        “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.”

        –Matthew 10:34-39

        Sorry Wolf, I know you’re a good person, but that quote is a hateful and violent message straight from the mouth of Jesus (as quoted from a translation of a translation of a separate translation, which was based on stories passed down for about 100 years). That last part, 10:39, really sounds a lot like a message for jihad, doesn’t it.

        “…[W]hoever loses their life for my sake will find it.”

        If Jesus was quoted as saying that, plus the words “paradise” and “virgins,” would you agree it is the exact same as any Koranic call to jihad?

        • Jesus spoke those words in an abstract sense, and he was right – he did not bring peace, he indeed brought strife. Early accounts of Christianity show that the new religion brough exactly that strife, which tore apart even families, that Jesus warned about. He advised his apostles to trade in their cloaks and buy swords, but when they said they had some swords already, he said ‘that is enough’.

          I think the main difference can be seen in the story of Gethsemane. Does anywhere Muhammad tell his followers to put away their swords and let him die? Instead, he tells them to take up swords and and conquer in his name. I’m not saying that makes Islam wrong – indeed, it makes Islam a more effective force for governing a society, because it bestows legitimacy on the necessary use of force that the Catholic church essentially had to make up in order to run Christian states.

          I’m not arguing Jesus did any of these specific things, but they are definitely what was believed by early Christians. And though Jesus calls for martyrdom, it is quite different than Muslim martyrdom. It is suicidal – so suicidal that Augustine had to go to great lengths to specify that suicide as not acceptable. Thus, it remains quite different than the Koranic call to Jihad. The Gospels contain the same call to Greater Jihad – the control of self. But there is no equivalent call for the Lesser Jihad to be found in the Gospels – only for massive an rather impractical self sacrifice.

    • Is President Bush worse than Osama? Is that the standard?

      Is Osama worse than Hitler? Is that the standard?

      Your asking me that question? I’ve been quoted in an AP article saying that Bush was a criminal and should be charged with treason.

      Friends called me from the eastern seaboard asking if it “really you?”

      I laughed. Always meant to follow-up on a FOIA request for my “file” because I’m sure it got me on some list.

      • kptrng

        Again, Obama is a piker. We kill as many has he did twice before breakfast.

        It’s amazing that even those who adopt critical postures are unaware of the extent of the crimes we have committed.

        • Carfreestupidity

          Maintaining an empire requires a strong stomach

        • Kpkptrng

          And an ignorant populace.

          • Carfreestupidity

            That… And a populace that is heavily indebted. When your busy spinning the hampster wheel and barely keeping up, how are you supposed to have the time to understand what America is really about underneath the not so fresh coat of paint?

  6. Steve W

    Those racist anti-family bigots in the vid clip were allowed to protest and scream at little kids. And of course, the true test of free speech is when the speech is particularly egregious. which to me, the speech employed by the protesters in the vid clip certainly was.

    As to whether bush or bin Ladin is the bigger terrorist, I bet that’s something their two families sit around and laugh about when they see each other at business meetings or on vacations.

    While the civilian body count is certainly magnitudes higher for bush, can he really claim the title when bin Landin so skillfully and cleverly made bush look like a simpleton at Tora Bora?

    you know, I’d like Cindy Sheehan a lot less than I do if she were to go scream hateful comments at a bunch of little kids. Glad she didn’t do that.

    • Kpkptrng

      (The late) bin Laden was a piker compared to bin Bush.

      I actually took some time to count the number westerners killed by terrorist acts by Muslims since Reagan declared war on them back in the early 1980’s. Counting 9/11, the number was like 4,000.

      We don’t count our victims, of course, and demean anyone who does, but just in Iraq the toll approaches 1.7 million on the high-count end, including 500,000 kids by desk-murderer Clinton during his term. It[‘s not all Bush.

      And we’re sooo scared and so hateful! Has there ever been a more craven people thank we Americans?

      • “just in Iraq the toll approaches 1.7 million on the high-count end, including 500,000 kids by desk-murderer Clinton during his term. It[‘s not all Bush. ”

        You’re counting the same way your nemeses behind “the black book of communism” count – and as you’ve pointed out before, it’s very hard to get a trustworthy number that way.

        • kptrng

          I think I even said that we don’t count victims and demean anyone who does. Thanks for following through on that.

          And oh man, here we go again: There are three studies on Iraq deaths that represent high,middle and low.

          Low is Iraq Body Count, which only counts those deaths that are published in newspapers. Lancet claimed that this method undercounted by a factor of at least five in a war zone.

          Lancet in 2006 (Hopkins) estimated 655,000 deaths. The study was peer-reviewed, and data released to other credible agencies.

          ORB, Opinion Research Bureau, a respected British agency, estimated 1,200,000 deaths a couple of years ago. ORB is considered credible unless it criticizes the empire.

          On the other side, we get …nuthin. No counting, no studies, just jeers and sneers. Thanks for the input.

        • kptrng

          Oh yeah, and I forgot, the 500,000 kids killed by Clinton – World Health Organization. He blamed Saddam Hussein, not credibly, but did not dispute the number, nor did his SOS, Madelyn Albright, who thought the price was worth it, so long as they were paying it, and not us.

          So, give me what you got, PW, besides jeers. Your emperor is quite naked.

          • I never jeered at you, Mark. I merely pointed out that when people blame deaths due to starvation and disease on communism, you cry foul, but when deaths due to starvation and disease are blamed on Clinton, you’ve no problem.

          • Kpkptrng

            To the degree possible, I try to deal in factual matters, even in a blog environment. The Stalin/famine discussion came about in a discussion of famines in general, which were a common occurrence in India during British rule, but never blamed on the British. They also happened in Stalinist Russia and Maoist China. Each is culpable for what followed, Stalin deliberately manipulating food supplies, Mao doing it with revolutionary fervor in advancing untested agricultural techniques.

            My point was that the Brits did the same thing, with equal fervor, and in our history books get off Scott free.

            The deaths in Iraq during the 1990’s did not materialize out of thin air, but were the result of a deliberate policy. It started with the destruction of the civilian infrastructure in the 1991 US attack, so that the ability to produce clean water and dispose of sewage was severely compromised. The US and Britain withheld not only food and medicine, but also the necessary parts and material needed to repair water plants and sewage facilities.

            It was a deliberate policy, and the results were predictable. Nothing was done about them until the UN exposed the situation in 1995, and then only cosmetic remedies were applied. (After Food For Oil began, Iraqis were still limited to about 700 calories per day in nutrition. Of course children and old people suffer!)

            For this reason, I say that the policy was deliberate, and that the person (nominally) in charge of the policy at that time, Bill Clinton, was responsible, just as were Stalin and Mao and the Brits. I am consistent throughout. You are not.

            And, by the way, I’ve tried to understand the logic behind the incredible suffering inflicted on Iraq in the 1990’s, and the only explanation I can come up with that fits other events is that they were trying to ‘break’ them, soften them, get them ready for the inevitable invasion, which was to take place once we were assured that the WMD’s were gone. It is for this reason that the Bushies truly believed that the Iraqis would welcome an invasion, as they would be grateful for an end of the sanctions regime. Turned out the Iraqis were not stupid.

            So, PW, please don’t mess with me without having ducks in a row, and please take time now to ridicule me for my feeling that a know a little more than you do about this stuff. I should be more obsequious.

            • I never raised any question of your numbers or on blame placed, Mark. I don’t have the energy to track down your comments (and they were from a while ago), but I was merely referring to the fact that outside our discussion of famine someone brought up the numbers killed by communism and you questioned the methodology used in their source.

  7. This does a great job of exposing the lie about the protests in Madison – that they are somehow just like the Tea Partiers because a few of them held up some nasty signs.

    This protest was about one thing, and one thing only: Hate. You can hear it in their voices, you can read it in their signs, and you can see it in their faces. Man, it’s tough to watch.

    These people’s beliefs about Sharia law coming to America are right up there with 9/11 conspiracy theories. They’re that crazy and irrational. And they got two U.S. Congressman to show up.

    The day that 2 Democratic Congressman show up to a 9/11 Truther rally, pigs will fly.

  8. Rehberg Dennyquivocates Senator Tester’s leadership.

  9. lizard19

    i attended a training today put on by NCBI (National Coalition Building Institute)

    our chapter director, Amie, is absolutely fantastic, and i know for a fact her work with local police officers has been time and resources well spent.

    • I have the opportunity over the years to attend a number of NCBI trainings and they were always well worth the time spent.

      Amy is fantastic…that whole staff there is fabulous.

      My best advice to anyone having the opportunity to familiarize themselves with NCBI, is to make the time and do it. You won’t regret it.

  10. lizard19

    i think it’s wonderful how those lovely folks at the Open Door Baptist Church come to Saturday markets to preach the “loving” word of God.

    it has inspired me to consider forming a special group to respond to their righteous signage. this group will be known as The Banana Hammock Tag-Team Dance Troupe and we will dance provocatively in nothing but speedos to Depeche Mode’s Personal Jesus.

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