What Are They Going to Do? Bring in the Pinkerton Guards to Zuccotti Park?

by jhwygirl

A private park, right? Is it the NYPD planning on coming in to remove the protesters? Is it their job to enforce trespassing?

And are the trespassers really trespassing on a public space that has been open without discrimination to people of the public?

In other words – Does the public have a prescriptive right to this public space owned by Brookfield Properties? I’m pretty sure a lawyer could make a pretty good case for public use of this space.

And certainly, free speech is a long-standing public use pretty much everywhere. As is political speech.

It’s unclear what is planned for Brookfield Properties to clear the area – and of course, we’ve moved so close to corporatism (or fascism, for those of you with stronger opinions – like me) – what with NYPD bought and paid for by JP Morgan Chase – that it’s entirely possible that Mayor Bloomberg is going to utilize NYPD to remove peaceful protesters from what is inarguably a public space, albeit owned by a private entity.

That’s a George Ochenski link people…don’t miss it.

I’m not a New York City taxpayer here (obviously) but I’d have a problem with my tax dollars being used to provide security to private property for unregulated public uses that have been allowed on the property for years.

On the other hand, perhaps Brookfield Properties is planning on bringing in the Pinkerton Guards, like Andrew Carnegie brought in to try and bring and end to the Homestead Strike of 1882.

That didn’t go well. Blood spilled on the streets, and Carnegie carried that guilt with him for the rest of his life.

Incidentally, when Andrew Carnegie sold Carnegie Steel, he sold it to JP Morgan.

Swing it now to 2011…perhaps it’s Halliburton-KBR they’re going to bring in to Zuccotti, who knows.

What I do know is that whatever happens down there is going to happen under the watchful eye of the nation.

This nation could benefit from an immersion course in American history if you ask me. And a dose of constitutional history and law thrown in, too. That wiki link on the Homestead Strike would be a good start.

Another good mandatory history lesson I would assign if I were queen – and this isn’t just for Montanans, though current conditions here make the lesson especially relevant – is a read on The Copper Kings and the Anaconda Copper Mining Company. There’s a whole lot of lesson learning to go on in there – and not the crap written by Ayn Rand in ….in everything that hypocritical corporate whore ever wrote.

  1. Perhaps it’s you who needs a lesson on Ayn Rand. You really shouldn’t call her a “corporate whore” considering she wrote this about a “mixed economy.”:

    a mixture of capitalism and statism, of freedom and controls. A mixed economy is a country in the process of disintegration, a civil war of pressure-groups looting and devouring one another,

    Now, I’m not an Objectivist (ignorance has somecalling those “Randians”) nor do I subscribe to her prescription for morality. But she viewed the same people that you (and often I) find so contemptuous with an equal contempt. But I’m sure you’ve never studied her enough to know that. She referred to powerful moneyed people who abuse the system as “looters” – of which, I’m convinced, both of us would agree with her.

    Will Wilkenson wrote about the Rand bashing from the left that should be required reading for anyone who thinks that they understand Rand as a crypto modern day fascist after once picking up a copy of Atlas Shrugged (and probably never read the 1,100 plus pages.) You can find it here.

    Now, as far as the abuse of the property and the legal responsibilities of its owners, I think you’re conflating 1st Amendment rights with anarchy. And no matter how much I love the writings of Proudhon and Emma Goldman (great anarchists both) I would no more find blame in them for intransigence of OWS squatters than I would Rand of Brookfield’s operations.

    And, yes, the government has any role at all it’s to enforce the law whether it’s simple trespass or murder. Are we not a society of laws?

    • It is rare, Dave, that a police officer would enforce – with threat of arrest – a charge of trespass by a private individual.

      A court, on the other hand…or a court order and then a trespass is a different matter for the police.

      I’ve seen trespass – I’ve been where the police have been asked to remove someone – and you simply do not see police doing that. Enter assault or battery, again, is a different matter.

      There still is that pesky matter of unregulated public use for a huge chunk of time prior to what is occurring there now.

      I will be fair, btw, and peruse the Wilkinson link you provided. :)

      • It’s not rare at all. I’ve been escorted out of bars by police for refusing to leave (although I’ve been sober for almost 16 years now) and I’ve called the cops to have people removed from various businesses where I’ve been a manager. And I’ve had the police remove people from my home for trespassing (a recovering junkie who I said could stay as long as he stayed clean – then didn’t.) Perhaps you should head out to the bar and try to get kicked out and see how it works?

        As I understand the park, the owners granted a public easement in exchange for a zoning change on nearby property. In the process they committed to maintain the park – including a certain amount of liability. The city was glad to get the park with no associated costs for upkeep. I’m not sure where you get the idea that the land is “unregulated” for public use. That sounds completely implausible to me. What are the limits of “unregulated” public use; health hazards, safety, etc?

        I just think you’re seeing something in “rights” that simply don’t exist.

      • Pogo Possum

        I am not certain what your experiences have had jhwyGirl and I am no expert on eviction laws in New York, but I have called the police on two occasions to remove trespassers from private property.

        Though each situation was different, the process was the same. Each time we called 911 and reported a person who refused to leave private property. The police came and verified our identities and the identities of the offenders. On both occasions the police informed the trespassers they were trespassing on private property and instructed them to leave or face arrest. One occasion resulted in the person leaving as directed. The second situation resulted in the trespasser being handcuffed and lead away after becoming aggressive and charging the officers. On several occasions, our family has relied upon both the County Sheriff’s office and Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks to remove trespassers from our ranch property.


        • I am going to say that in pretty much most of those cases it is NOT trespass that those people were charged with – assault..battery…refuse to obey….

          My own general experience – and I have over the years seen in many times – is that even a squatter has some rights. Now – maybe I and my friends have been unlucky, but I’ve heard a whole lot of ‘gotta get a court order’ ‘gotta talk to a judge’ regardless of pictures video etc.

          Hunting on private property is a FWP violation. I kinda think that’s different.

          What I think is that if it is a business dealing with the issue the cops are easily taking care of the situation – but when it is a private individual seeking the same sort of service, there’s a lot of reluctance there to address it head on.

          and let me just add that I have a hell of a lot of respect for the police. It’s a tough job a dangerous job – much respect. So please don’t accuse me of taking some opportunity to bash on police.

          • Pogo Possum

            You have always demonstrated a high respect for the police and public servants in general, jhwyGirl. That is one reason why I always respect you even when we disagree.

            Unfortunately, some of your friends in the Occupy movement plus some fellow bloggers do not share your respect for police officers and are often downright cruel in their comments.

  2. Ingemar Johansson

    Ya know, if like, everyone got together and used their “higher power” then they couldn’t touch us man.

  3. JC

    Again, you show your rash generalizations to reveal your ignorance of Missoula and its goings-on. I’d classify this comment in the “spam” category. Go rail on your johnny-one-note express on your own blog.

  4. mr benson

    Rights of speech and assembly are not unlimited nor have they ever been. Assembly on private property certainly isn’t unlimited. If a person wants to do a Berrigan, and chain themselves to a park or a gate or a tree and refuse to leave when lawfully told to do so, they’re committing civil disobedience, in the long tradition of Ghandi and the Berrigans, and will have the consequence of arrest. It’s a time honored way of making a point.

    Whether the end of this forceful “occupation” will be peaceful or violent remains to be seen.

    BTW, with his post directly above this one, JC shows his intolerance to free speech on private property, eh?

    A public easement doesn’t generally allow unlimited uses of the property. Trespass, as has been pointed out, is frequently enforced.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

  • Pages

  • Recent Comments

    Miles on A New Shelter for Vets or an E…
    success rate for In… on Thirty years ago ARCO killed A…
    Warrior for the Lord on The Dark Side of Colorado
    Linda Kelley-Miller on The Dark Side of Colorado
    Dan on A New Shelter for Vets or an E…
    Former Prosecutor Se… on Former Chief Deputy County Att…
    JediPeaceFrog on Montana AG Tim Fox and US Rep.…
  • Recent Posts

  • Blog Stats

    • 1,676,410 hits
  • Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

    Join 2,736 other followers

  • October 2011
    S M T W T F S
  • Categories

%d bloggers like this: