The Usefulness Of Gun Extremism

by lizard

Alex Jones made some headlines for himself recently by going berserker on Piers Morgan. While I can’t stand Alex Jones, the self-promoting carney of conspiracy culture didn’t disappoint his followers with his antics. And while Piers Morgan sat there, trying not to react to Jones’ aggressive goading, I bet he was thinking—this is great, I don’t even have to argue my points because this guy is making my case for me by acting like a lunatic.

Here’s the video:

For a good analysis of Alex Jones’ statements, Benjamin Studebaker takes the time to address them, one by one.

Another video that I ran across features a youtube dude who calls himself “marked guardian”, a guy who likes to walk around with an AR15 strapped to his back so he can test police officers:

I wonder if the police officers would treat this kid any differently if he wasn’t white.

I’m not particularly qualified to discuss guns. I do, however, recognize the difficulty pro-gun people are going to have in advocating for their side when all manner of gun-nuttery will be used to ridicule them.

And there is plenty of gun-nuttery to choose from. One example is in today’s Missoulian, with an article titled ‘Patriot’ Group looks to create armed community. If you are interested in becoming a part of this rightwing, counterculture community called The Citadel, there is an application process:

To win residency to The Citadel, applicants would have to agree to a list of conditions, such as following the U.S. Constitution, and being able to shoot a man-sized steel target at various distances with a handgun and rifle.

Members must keep an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle handy, along with at least five magazines, 1,000 rounds of ammunition and other supplies. Stocking provisions for one year is also required.

“The responsibility for maintaining functional arms and ammunition levels for every member of the household shall fall to the head of household,” the application form reads. “Every able-bodied Patriot will be responsible for maintaining a Tactical Go Bag or Muster Kit to satisfy the Minuteman concept.”

The group says it won’t have a leader. There will be no home ownership fees, no “recycling police” and no ordinance enforcers from city hall. Homes would be poured of concrete, the website says, to achieve maximum strength.

A rational conversation about guns won’t be easy in this country. Hell, a rational conversation about anything seems increasingly difficult.

Will gun extremists ever understand how useful they are for the gun control side of the argument? Doubtful.


  1. larry kurtz

    I am truly frightened by these developments, liz; and have little hope that mass shootings and lawlessness will end…

    (the rest of this comment was deleted -lizard)

    • lizard19

      I understand the concern. I was personally threatened by David Burgert before he shot at deputies and disappeared into the woods. it was incredibly unsettling, though at the time I didn’t know who he was.

      there was also concern at the time our local Occupy encampment was active that a few extremists who shall not be named were casing it out. luckily nothing came of that threat.

      we live in troubled times, to be sure larry.

      • Craig Moore

        Lizard, I am greatly amazed that you condone and entertain this libel. I ask that you remove Kurtz’s comment.

        • lizard19

          in the mind of some pro-gun extremists, every mass-shooting is an opportunity to promote their vigilante fantasies of shooting and killing bad guys. embracing vigilante justice is tantamount to embracing lawlessness, and I do think that is what some—not all—gun enthusiasts want. I don’t see the libel, Craig.

          • Craig Moore

            To claim, as Kurtz, did that I or anyone that thinks like me hope for mass shootings is, in fact, libel because it is false and is published here not as mere reckless opinion, but as a statement of fact and blessed by you. I am not a public figure.

            • lizard19

              I excised the part of the comment you feel libeled by.

              • Craig Moore

                Thank you.

            • larry kurtz

              Fuck you, Craig for believing you are the only Moore on the globe: it’s pure psychopathy. Besides, your comments in public fora that celebrate violence against those with whom you disagree have singled you out as a intolerant bigot, an earth hater and a blowhard.

              • Craig Moore

                I am sorry you are having a bad day. Perhaps tomorrow will be better for you.

  2. Steve W

    I think Alex Jones is a professional disinformationist. His job is to make gun owners, big pharma critics, and 9/11 researchers look as bad and nutty as possible.

    He’s good at what he does.

    • Big Swede

      You’re right AJ is a nut and 9/11 truther, which puts him in the same class with Mark T.

      Say what you will about nuts there’s enough sane discussion in the new media to send at least the “assault weapons” part of new regulations packing.

      “According to the New York Times, the administration’s prospects of pushing an assault-weapons ban through Congress are slim and, as a result, the White House “is focusing on other measures it deems more politically achievable.” The story suggests that the White House doesn’t want to spend political capital on “a losing cause at the expense of other measures with more chances of success.” Though the administration will recommend the passage of such a ban, it’ll be a hollow recommendation. The White House is already defining success downward, “emphasizing other new gun rules that could conceivably win bipartisan support and reduce gun deaths,” which would include universal background checks and research into the causes of gun violence.”-NYT.

    • jack ruby

      Steve W. hit it on the head. Jones may be a twoofer but he is a gun bator and a birther too just like you swede.

  3. Big Swede

    And to say the only nuts are pro gunners is being disingenuous.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2013/01/11/latest-ed-schultz-whopper-weve-never-had-civilian-stop-shooting

    • lizard19

      no where in this post do I say “the only nuts are pro gunners”.

      • Big Swede

        The Usefulness Of Anti-Gun Extremism.

        Sound better with my link?

        • lizard19

          the usefulness of anti-gun extremism is increasing profits for gun manufacturers.

          • Big Swede

            Never mentioned “profits”.

  4. petetalbot

    It looks like these Citadel folks are looking for acreage in Idaho or Montana. I think they’d feel more at home in Idaho (hope, hope).

  5. Big Swede

    Thank goodness there’s Shapiro’s out there than Jones.

  6. Craig Moore

    FYI from 2009:

    Dear Attorney General Holder:

    This letter is in regards to your recent comments suggesting the reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons. We oppose reinstating the ban on the sale of assault weapons, and we call on the Department of Justice to enforce existing laws before it considers imposing any new restrictions on gun ownership.

    Your comments noted increased violence among international drug traffickers as a reason to reexamine the ban on assault weapons within this country; however, this statement fails to acknowledge laws already in place that work to address this issue. Under current law, both transferring a firearm to someone knowing that it will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime as well as possessing a firearm in furtherance of a Federal drug trafficking crime are already federal felonies punishable by imprisonment.

    We will strongly oppose any legislation that will infringe upon the rights of individual gun owners. We value our outdoor heritage, and a large part of that is our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Passing this heritage down from one generation to the next is a sacred part of being a Montanan, and something that we will always fight to protect. In the light of the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling of District of Columbia v. Heller, affirming the Second Amendment right to bear arms as an individual and constitutionally protected right, we urge you to avoid any legislative proposals that would jeopardize the Constitutional right of law-abiding Americans to own firearms.

    Sincerely,
    U.S. Senator Max Baucus
    U.S. Senator Jon Tester

    Now does that make Montana’s Dem senators extremists because they oppose legislation that bans certain firearm cosmetics?

  7. Pogo Possum

    News reports warning of large numbers of people planning to flood into Idaho or Montana to join the armed Citadel is nothing more than sensationalism masquerading as serious journalism. It makes a great headline, fans the paranoia of the left and helps sell newspapers.

    Go to the bottom of the Missoulian article. The Southern Poverty Law Center rightly states “….the claim that there are several hundred people involved is patently ludicrous” and “idle fantasy” and “we’re likely talking about a man, a dog and his computer envisioning this whole imaginary city. We don’t take it that seriously.”

    While the Missoulian, to their credit” mentioned these comments at the bottom of the article, many of the news sources left it out to help sensationalize the story.

    As for Piers Morgan, this sums him up rather well:

    • jack ruby

      Hey buddy, even one more Derek Skees moving up here is one too many.

    • lizard19

      we should always be weary of how hot-button issues get reported, which is why this post featured that article as an example of how gun-nuts will be used in precisely the manner you describe—to fan paranoia.

      Pogo, you don’t seem to like sensationalist reporting when it comes to an issue you support, which the sensationalism may negatively affect. that was precisely my frustration during the medical marijuana debacle, which prompted this post.

      back to the gun issue. as you point out, this Citadel “community” is not a serious thing. unfortunately, by virtue of this story being written, these particular nutjobs are getting free publicity, and it could become a serious thing.




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