As the Tragedy of Flight MH 17 Unfolds, Israel’s Ground Invasion Won’t Go Unnoticed (here, anyway)

by lizard

Flight MH 17 appears to have been shot out of the sky over Eastern Ukraine today, killing 295 people. The speculation is rampant. If you’re into early speculation on what happened, I suggest sifting through this comment thread at Moon of Alabama. Another post worth considering is this one from Zerohedge, asking why it appears the pilot changed course from the 10 previous MH 17 flights.

Needless to say, this crash will dominate the 24 news cycle. What might not get as much attention is Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza:

After days of waiting and deliberation, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Thursday night directed the IDF to send ground troops into Gaza to strike the terror tunnels into Israel.

Signaling that the initial phase of the ground attack would be limited, a statement put out by the Prime Minister’s Office said Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon directed the IDF to prepare to expand the ground operation.

The statement said the security cabinet approved the operation after Israel agreed to the Egyptian cease-fire proposal on Tuesday, which Hamas rejected.

That cease-fire discussed between Israel and Egypt (and not Hamas, who learned about it from the media) now appears to have been a flimsy ruse to make it look like Israel made an effort before doing what they had planned on doing all along.

Chile, in response to Israel’s bombing of mostly civilians, has suspended trade and is considering doing more:

Chile has suspended Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with Israel and is considering the withdrawal of its ambassador to Tel Aviv in protest against the Israeli bombing campaign on Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip.

The Chilean-Palestinian parliamentary group told HispanTV that the Chilean government will also seek Israel’s condemnation by the UN Security Council (UNSC) after meeting with the Chilean Foreign Heraldo Munoz.

Chilean deputies and senators of Palestinian origin went to the Foreign Ministry on Monday to demand a stronger position against Israel regarding its actions in the Gaza Strip.

With the number of victims of Israeli attacks passing the 200 mark, parliamentarians of all backgrounds have demanded urgent action by the Chilean government.

Home to a large Palestinian community, the aggression on Gaza has not gone unnoticed in Chile.

So, as the spin cycle goes into extreme over-drive over flight MH 17, I will continue compiling links and writing posts about Israel’s war crimes.


  1. Big Swede

    Can we get another “reset button”?

  2. steve kelly

    The new BRICS bank now going head to head with the IMF, World Bank and “Western” Central Banks is another piece of the puzzle worth following. There could be considerable heartburn in Israel, and among Zionist bankers worldwide. How far will they go to keep their banking monopoly intact?

    There’s also the recent “genocide” conviction of Israel (war crimes) in Malaysia. Tony Blair was also convicted by the same court system. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37129.htm

    • (Here’s a pointless aside: Tony Blair’s wife is a descendent of the Booth family, of John Wilkes fame, as was Clair Boothe Luce, who added an ‘e’ to distract.)

      When I think of it, The 2003 Iraq attack was to save the Petrodollar, as was the 2011 attack on Libya. Both countries were in the process of selling oil in non-dollar currencies, both were reminded not to do that. The petrodollar and military violence are all that keep our flagging empire propped up.

      BRICS is very big, and open affront to IMF and World Bank, the two pillars that stand aside the US military as agents of imperialism.

      It is starting to make sense in a scary way.

  3. steve kelly

    In a weird way this all brings me back to the JFK era. He began issuing treasury notes in 1963. http://www.rense.com/general44/exec.htm

  4. Craig Moore

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696847/They-shouldnt-f-g-flying-There-war-going-Ukraine-intelligence-officials-release-phone-calls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html

    • lizard19

      evidence is initially pointing toward Ukranian federalists, but I would take a look at the Zerohedge piece and ask yourself, if the plane was diverted over this airspace, who ordered the diversion, and why?

      • Craig Moore

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/why-ukraine-erupted-again.html

      • The great circle route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crosses Ukraine. Aircraft flying a great circle route may fly a course that deviates slightly from the exact great circle (great ellipse, actually) due to weather and other considerations. At this point not enough is known to conclude that the aircraft’s route resulted from nefarious influences.

        I’d be very surprised to learn that the people who fired the missile knew they were shooting at a civilian airliner, or that aircraft controllers in cahoots with the missile crew deliberately ordered the aircraft to go to a place where it could be shot down. No one — not the Ukrainian government, not the pro-Russian rebels, not the Russians — had anything to gain by blowing a civilian airliner out of the sky. I think we’ll find this was a case of mistaken identity by a missile crew that was poorly trained and trigger happy.

        • “…not the Ukrainian government, not the pro-Russian rebels, not the Russians — had anything to gain…”

          Are you not forgetting the Americans? NATO? Why do you automatically exclude them from possible guilt? After all, they DO have something to gain.

          I’ve seen this so often, this attitude that all of the bad guys are in other countries.

          • petetalbot

            Of course, not all of the bad guys are in other countries, Mark. The U.S., and other nations in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, have had their hands in dirty wars large and small. But to suspect that the U.S. or NATO had any role in the shooting down of Flight 17 is the most outlandish comment I’ve read this year.

            I agree with comments here that it’s hypocritical for the U.S. to jump all over Russia and Putin for supplying advanced weaponry to Ukrainian separatists. How many SAMs has the U.S. distributed to regimes and rebels around the world?

            Still, there isn’t now nor will there ever be any evidence that the U.S. or NATO are behind the downing of the Malaysia Air flight. Pure fantasyland.

            • That is a faith-based statement, Pete, what I’ve come to expect from you. Why is it “outlandish” to suspect a US hand in this matter, given that the US was behind the coup d’etat to begin with, having advanced $5 billion in funds to create the necessary unrest?

              Your inability to suspect NATO or US elements in this affair falls squarely in my propaganda model of the typical American. One of the attitudes that you’ve been inoculated with during your lifetime is “We’re rational, they’re not.” Therefore, your are incapable of even having those thoughts. Orwell called it crimestop,

              • petetalbot

                The fact that you are capable of having these thoughts (U.S. and NATO behind the downing of Flight 17) points to what is widely known as “conspiracy phobia.” Just point to one shred of evidence and I’ll pay attention.

              • Craig Moore

                Mark, The Guardian points to three of your buddies as under suspicion. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/three-pro-russia-rebel-leaders-suspects-over-downed-mh17

              • Craig Moore

                Putin’s Proxies. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/putins-proxies-how-much-did-he-control-ukraines-rebels/article19674683/

              • A history of shooting down airliners …that would be the Vincennes and TWA800. KAL007 was suspicious beginning to end, apparently is Soviet terroritory with transponder off, as I remember. Lockerbie was never resolved to my satisfaction other than I doubt it was a Libyan affair. Lots of spooks, CIA MI6 around that too. I have read extensively on these matters over the years. You haven’t.

                Sometime, and I know you won’t do it and I’m talking to a brick wall, look up Operation Gladio, 40+ years of NATO terrorism including a bomb in a railway station in Bologna and at the Piazza Fountain in Rome, false flag attacks, assassinations (including Aldo Moro, Italian Priime Minister),false flaggery – very big deal in Europe. But of course not covered here.

                There’s just a whole world of shit that you’ve not been exposed to Pete, because American media is state-controlled and shelters you. You ask me to bring you evidence? Hell no! Go look for it yourself. I get very tired of people asking me to do their due diligence for them. Time you took it up for yourself, vigilant citizen.

              • Piazza Fountain in Milan.

              • petetalbot

                Mark, you dumb fuck, if you actually read my comments you’d know that I consistently question the U.S. role in wars, foreign policy and covert operations. In this specific case, the evidence points to the separatists. Why else would they be impeding the investigation (inhibiting access, removing bodies, not handing over the black boxes)?

                I asked you to offer up evidence that NATO or the U.S. were behind the attack. Your response: “You ask me to bring you evidence? Hell no! Go look for it yourself. I get very tired of people asking me to do their due diligence for them. Time you took it up for yourself, vigilant citizen.”

                In other words, you got nothing.

                And I have researched this, as much as possible in the short time frame since the incident occurred: I’ve looked at the weaponry that could accomplish this and who’s in possession of it. I’ve scoured the international media, and with the exception of the state-controlled Russian press and a couple of fringe blogs (such as your own), the evidence is mounting that the separatists, probably mistakenly, shot down Flight 17.

                People who don’t buy into your conspiracy theories are “ignorant,” lackeys of the propaganda machine, incapable of critical thinking. I suggest that you try some critical thinking. Not everything is a conspiracy and sometimes the mainstream media get it right.

                I’ll say it again, the U.S. and NATO have been involved in many skanky covert operations over the years. This is not one of them.

              • Oh, I read your replies, Pete. I know how you perceive your own abilities, your critical thinking skills. In the meantime I have brought you a documented history of forty years of NATO/US terrorism, and it has not registered due to your Crimestop function, aka protective stupidity. I am so used to this, and to the grandiose self-imagined high state of awareness. You play in the shallow end of politics, and imagine you are a savant.

                You are collecting impressions via American media, and as intended, are slowly coming to believe that the rebel insurgents are behind the terrorist act. It’s all going as intended. You have no “evidence,” none of us do. You’re being diddled. That’s what American news does. That’s how it works. You need to get out more, see the bigger picture.

                I use the term”protective stupidity” because you used the term “dumb fuck.” I try to be a little more nuanced in the insult game. You do have on you a layer of insulation that prevents you from seeing reality. It’s part of being an American.

                You lack gravitas. You’re one of them political analysts that imagines he understands American politics, who actually knows very little of either politics or himself.

            • JC

              The Buk SA-11 missile system we are accusing the Russians of supplying the self-defense forces with is a leftover system from the late 70s. Hardly “advanced weaponry.” Not to mention how much military hardware that the Soviets left in place when the republics broke up.

              And of course, nobody is talking about the advanced weaponry we are supplying the Ukrainian military with. How about 4 Apache helicopters for starters? Open the link in Google Chrome, and hit the translate button.

              Here’s the story from Before It’s News:

              “According to eyewitness report, 4 US Apache helicopters were seen near Majskoe, Dnepropetrovsk region, Ukraine. Needless to say, that due to drastic differences in design, controls etc. between ex. Soviet and United States designs, Apache’s can be flown and serviced ONLY by western pilots and technicians.
              (@dnrpress) 13 July 2014”

              Propaganda? Or fact? If true, would Russia supply the self-defense forces with Buk’s to help shoot them down?

              In any case, we are well into a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine. It can only get uglier and uglier.

              • petetalbot

                JC, I’m certainly not laying blame on the separatists, the Ukrainians or the Russians. As you say, at this point, there’s too much propaganda, bluster and misinformation to know what really happened. Which is why I take exception with Mark bringing NATO and the U.S. into the equation. It’s irrational thinking.

              • NATO, US, Kiev have motive, means, opportunity. It is therefore logical and rational to include them as possible suspects. Period.

                Motive: Put people rebelling against Kiev putsch in a bad light to justify extreme violence in putting down revolution.

                Means: access to US weaponry and military and mercenaries to assist them.

                Opportunity: anytime, last week a good time.

                JC linked me to a Kiev film linking the shoot down to Eastern rebels. problem: I t was made BEFORE the plane was shot down,

    • No motive, Craig. No motive. There is always a motive. The Russians have no motive for shooting down an airliner. People who want to draw the Russians into war do, and I would look first and Langley/London for perpetrators.

      Of course, if you are of the American frame of mind that says “we’re rational, they’re not,” then you’ll think that other people commit senseless crimes, while we are reasonable and do not. But you’d be wrong. In my lifetime, my experience, the bulk of senseless violence in the world has been committed by Americans. As MLK said, the US is “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world…” (He would soon thereafter find out the exact meaning of those words.)

      • Craig Moore

        Your red herring arguments are in full gallop upon a straw horse.

        • A red herring refers to a piece of information that is intended to be misleading, or distracting from the actual question. A “straw horse” has no known logical fallacy connections, but a “straw man” is a misrepresentation of an opponents argument in order to defeat it.

          You seem to be riding a hobby horse here. Let me ask you something, and it’s an easy thing to answer, but revealing: Do you believe that Americans are relational, and Russians (excuse me, “Putin”) are not?

          Simple yes or no will do.

          • Excuse me: “relational” should be “rational.”

          • Craig Moore

            Shifting to my beliefs are just another example of your red herrings riding a straw horse.

          • In other words, “yes.” Therefore, it is impossible for you to look at this situation objectively, as you ahve reread exonerated tech US, and naturally its toy, NATO.

            No go sit on your hobby horse.

          • Hoemstly, this keyboard drives me nuts, and I am too used to correcting my mistakes on my oown blog.

            “as you ahve reread exonerated tech US, and naturally its toy, NATO.” should read …

            as you have already exonerated the US, and naturally its toy, NATO.

            • Craig Moore

              Are you drinking….heavily????? Unintelligible gibberish. As you your attempts to paint me with the brush of your paranoid delusions, I suggest you try a more receptive canvas.

              • Craig Moore

                correction: s/b “to” not “you”

            • No, not at all. I use a sensitive keyboard that came with the computer, and typos are abundant. When writing on my own blog, I correct during and after words appear on the screen. So I don’t much worry. However, on non-owned blogs, I hit the “reply” button too easily. This entry is written on an IPad. I’ve gotten pretty good at two-fingering these things.

              Back to subject-at-hand: I see in you someone who, like James Conner, is trained to look away from Americans as villains. That’s why I asked you if it is possible you think Americans are rational actors, other not. You refused to answer, an obvious “yes.” Ergo, your opinions are not of much value.

              • Craig Moore

                Your vision, and your intellect, are faulty.

                I have no delusions, as you seem to exhibit, that my opinions matter. Go ahead and drown your Salem witches and declare yourself superior to us mere mortals. IF I were to agree with you both of us would be wrong.

              • lizard19

                that our opinions don’t matter is something we all have in common ;)

              • But I’ve not stated a conclusion with which you agree or disagree. I have merely refused to exclude the US, British and NATO from possible guilt. It is there where you jump this ship, as you have conclusions. You are merely afraid to state them here. At other blogs I imagine you are more forthcoming.

                Putin, right? Gotta be Putin!

                C’mon Craig. You know he’s evil, that he did it. Right? Just say so. God the verbal mess we can avoid. Just state your deepest suspicions, and I’ll tell you who supplied them to you.

              • Craig Moore

                Mark, IMHO this shoot down was a mistake by the separatists. The aircraft was flying from west to east over Ukraine towards Russia. Probably thought it was another military freighter. The two other aircraft kills by the separatists confirm their willingness to use such means. Russia merely enabled them. Putin, your hero, is in for a hell of a difficult slog. The deeper he digs and apologists like you cheer, it will be less than successful.

              • Too many things have to go wrong in your scenario. Occam says no. Much easier to believe that the aircraft was maneuvered into position, targeted and shot down, with intent.

                Your Putin statement is a big reveal.

  5. JC

    Craig said:

    “IMHO this shoot down was a mistake by the separatists. The aircraft was flying from west to east over Ukraine towards Russia. Probably thought it was another military freighter. The two other aircraft kills by the separatists confirm their willingness to use such means.”

    Craig, two points: 1) the DPR self-defense forces do not have surface-to-air missiles capable of hitting planes flying at 10,000m; 2) the other two planes they shot down were low flying enemy (Ukrainian military) aircraft.

    Apples and oranges, one does not predict the other.

    • JC, I’m leery of flat out assertions that the separatists do not have SAMs capable of bringing down a jetliner at cruising altitude. They’re denying they do, but why believe them? According to the Guardian tonight (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/separatist-links-malaysia-airlines-mh17-removed):

      ‘A Nato intelligence specialist quoted by the military analysts Janes said the recordings “show that the Russian ‘helpers’ realise that they now have an international incident on their hands – and they probably also gave the order for separatists to erase all evidence – including those internet postings. It will be interesting to see if we ever find this Buk battery again or if someone now tries to dump it into a river.”‘

      I’m content to wait for more information. I doubt that something this big can be covered-up for long. Someone surely saw the missile(s) launch, and at some point, someone will talk.

      Incidentally, I used Google Earth to examine routes from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. The single-leg great circle route overflies northern Ukraine. A two-leg GC route that goes south of Ukraine, with the turning point over the Black Sea south of the Crimea, is approximately two percent longer. My back of the envelope calculation suggests the two-leg route would require approximately 500 gallons more of jet fuel (a 777 cruising at 560 mph consumes roughly 35 gallons per minute). At JFK, the mean price of Jet A is $7.30/gal, but an airline would probably be paying $5–6/gal. So the two-leg route would have cost each passenger $10–15. That seems a small price for safety.

      • JC

        Proof needs to be shown by the accusers. All the U.S. has done is take unverified information and issued proclamations, innuendo, and threats.

        Since I posted this, I have found contradictory statements from Samantha Power and Dept. of Defense officials about the issue of SAMs, what they may have been, where they might have come from, and who may have operated them. If they can’t keep the story straight, then how is anyone to believe anything they, or the parrots in the media, say?

        Also, airlines never fly straight great circle routes. They always have to compensate for high altitude winds and jet streams. And they have to do this within established corridors.

        You may be able to wait for more info, but the propaganda machine went into overdrive at the first mention of the crash. Most Americans who listen to the MSM already believe that Russia is responsible for helping the DPR’s self-defense forces take MH 17 down. Mission accomplished. No facts needed, except a grisly scene with hundreds of dead bodies.

        • Craig Moore

          Putin was quick to lay blame on Ukraine. As the accuser he needs to show his proof. One of his RT mouthpieces has quit in disgust over his lies. http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/news-features/russia-today-reporter-quits-over-mh17-lies-20140719-3c7em.html

        • Craig Moore

          Then there is the coverup. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/separatist-links-malaysia-airlines-mh17-removed

        • Craig, how on earth did the Russian Federation, in your mind, become “Putin”?

  6. Craig Moore

    Poor Mark, continues to emulate barbed wire wrapped around an axle. Misses the “mark” 99% of the time by jumping from the issue to psychoanalyzing people and declaring a special knowledge of current events and even prescience of what’s to come.

    • “Emulate,” to strive to equal or exceed. So I want to equal or exceed barbed wire, which is wrapped around my ankle. I am getting a muddled image here.

      Craig, I know what you think. That part is easy. Why you think what you think is only a little bit harder: You react to images and suggestions in our news and entertainment system. You are the canvas on which the state propagandist paints his picture.

  7. larry kurtz

    As was likely the case when chemical weapons were used in Syria, imagine Mossad providing pro-Russia rebels with antiaircraft weapons to provide smokescreen for Gaza invasion.

    Is there any surer indicator that what follows is nonsensical BS than the phrase "false flag"?— Steven Metz (@steven_metz) July 19, 2014

  8. JC

    Pete said:

    “the evidence is mounting that the separatists, probably mistakenly, shot down Flight 17”

    Pete, I’d say that “the propaganda is mounting…” not the evidence. There has been no hard evidence shown to the public.

    If you want to read a good, independent investigative journalist’s view of the propaganda war over goings on in Ukraine, there is no better source than Robert Parry (who broke the Iran-Contra story). He has been putting up a daily report on the propaganda wars.

    “What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?”

    “Kerry’s Latest Reckless Rush to Judgment”

    “Airline Horror Spurs New Rush to Judgment”

    Parry’s Consortium News is no “fringe blog”. It is probably the most important read on these topics, so as to get some perspective on the reporting, the propaganda wars and the disinformation that is being disseminated.

    As to Russia’s “state-controlled media,” we need to recognize to what degree our MSM is also “state-controlled.” I have no problem reading kremlin.ru alongside whitehouse.gov. Or rt.com alongside cnn.com. Or reading times.com alongside ria.com alongside aljazeera.com. Reading between the lines with a high degree of skepticism is paramount in stories like this.

    But when much of the international press takes its cues from the U.S. mainstream news sources, it can only go downhill from there.

    I wouldn’t rule out any of the players who may have motives in taking down the airliner. It could have been a mistake on several of the party’s sides, with the others making the most propaganda out of it.

    I wouldn’t rule out one of the fringe fascist groups in Ukraine committing a false flag event. I wouldn’t rule out the CIA giving some subversive elements in Ukraine the weaponry to create chaos like this. I wouldn’t put it past neocons in the U.S. to somehow use black ops to push the region into war.

    There’s a lot of potential for motive on a broad scale here, or it could be a mistake. Lots of questions:

    What if the Ukraine military mistakenly shot down the airliner, and our propaganda pushed parties into a wider regional war?

    What if the Russians did give the federalists a Buk SA-11, and they mistakenly shot it down? Are we willing to reignite a new cold war over it?

    What if some of the Russian oligarchs displaced by Putin’s attempts to clean up corruption have helped some group or another to do the deed that will help bring Putin down?

    And when are we going to admit to our role in destabilizing Ukraine through efforts of NED and the CIA and corporate influence like Hunter Biden at Burisma?

    We’re playing with fire here folks. What I do know is that I won’t find a real story in the U.S. mainstream press, or coming out of our Administration’s PR.

    • lizard19

      very well said, JC.

      • JC

        Thanks, liz. Here’s another angle yu might be interested in:

        “Was MH17 Sabotaged By Israeli Security Team At Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?”

        And this story is from a respected Japanese journalist that is a supporter of Ukrainian independence.

        • lizard19

          wow, interesting and disturbing read. thank you JC.

    • petetalbot

      The things we agree on, JC:
      1) There needs to be an independent, international investigation before blame is affixed.
      2) Kerry’s sabre rattling is pathetic.
      3) There is no reason to reignite a new cold war.
      More so, the roles in any conflict could be reversed: American military hardware supplied to “friendly” rebels could shoot down a commercial airliner, whether intentional or not.

      That being said, the fact that separatists have already downed two planes, that they were less than cooperative at the crash site, that there is no evidence as yet that Ukraine or some nefarious third party is culpable, indicates separatist responsibility.

      I’m not jumping on the “it’s Putin’s fault” bandwagon. He had as much control over what happened as Obama or NATO. And that’s what drew me into this discussion; Tokarski implying that they (Obama/NATO) had something to do with this.

      Does anyone really believe that (besides some fascist fringe) the U.S. or Western Europe want to be dragged into a war in Central Europe? There’s no logic in that.

      • lizard19

        I agree Europe doesn’t want to be dragged into this conflict, but remember, Pete, this whole crisis in Ukraine was manufactured by the US (with initial, tentative support from European allies) in order to keep Ukraine from further integrating, economically, with Russia. one of the problems, though, is that European interests aren’t going to be served by imposing sanctions. in fact, Europe would probably hurt themselves by imposing sanctions, so Obama hasn’t had much luck coercing European cooperation with sanctions.

        now, with the downing of this plane, the international community has been dragged into this conflict. cui bono?

        I also think you should take into consideration the new bank established by the BRICS. challenging the role of the dollar is essentially challenging the core of US power to bully the rest of the world. I think the sociopaths who enjoy the power they have established will do just about anything to protect that power.

      • JC

        Well, I think that both parties — Russia and U.S./NATO — equally deserve to be criticized when it comes to fueling the battles in Ukraine, and with the propaganda war. I’ve already concluded we are fighting a proxy war in Ukraine against Russia. That’s the terrifying part of the whole thing.

        As to evidence, it will start trickling out, and hopefully an independent international investigation will put out timely, unbiased reports.

        In the meantime, Russia’s Defense Ministry put out some interesting facts complete with photos about movements of Ukraine’s Buk anti-aircraft batteries, and some info about a Ukrainian military jet intercepting MH 17 shortly before it crashed.

        Russia seems to be putting out some facts with questions that need to be answered. I have yet to see any hard evidence that back the innuendoes and accusations put forth by our administration and MSM.

        “Russian Military Says Detected Ukrainian Su-25 Fighter Plane Close to MH17 Before Crash”

        “Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area”

        “Russian Defense Ministry publishes data regarding Malaysian Boeing crash”

        I realize these are Russian news sources, Pete, but how else is Russia to get their side of the story out, particularly when the U.S. administration and the U.S. media are heavily engaged in a propaganda was against Putin and Russia? Is what I linked to propaganda? Or is it factual information? Something in-between?

        That’s what independent investigations are supposed to determine.

      • If you had not mentioned my name, Pete, I wanted to refrain from participating here. “Obama” and NATO should no more be above suspicion than Russia, Kiev or the insurgents.

        I just put up a post regarding forty years of terrorism in Western Europe by Western agents, including NATO and two men who later became very high CIA officials, Angleton and Dulles. They bombed the Bologna railway station, the Piazza Fontana, murdered innocent civilians, and assassinated the Italian Prime Minister, Aldo Mora, and much, much more. They did it for a reason – to create tension, to cause people to look to their government to protect them. This is why Kiev is the most likely suspect, as the regime there is backed by the US and NATO, and NATO has a long and documented history of domestic terrorism in Europe.

        Gladio and NATO terror is public information. There were trials, evidence, court proceedings, and men who sit in prison who have confessed to these crimes. It is in public view. You cannot deny it.

        “Tokarski implying that they (Obama/NATO) had something to do with this” is perfectly reasonably. Your reflexive reaction that it cannot be so is not. One of us is reality-based, the other not.

      • Craig Moore

        Ukraine points the accusatory finger at Russia for pushing the button. http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/

  9. Lizard, if you would be so kind, I would like it get rid of all of the links above. It is not my intention to litter your site with them. I do not intend the they appear here when I link here. I do not promote my blog.

    • Links below.




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