75 Years Later, Could Ukraine Be WWIII’s Poland?

by lizard

It’s been nearly 5 months since The Polish Wolf has written anything about the crisis in Ukraine. I have linked to that April post a handful of times because I would think someone who declared that The American Left has Failed on Ukraine would want stay on top of developments. I guess those developments don’t bolster PW’s argument. Does that explain nearly half a year of silence?

In that post PW highlights to examples of “contrarian left” failure. Here’s bullet point number 1:

1. The government currently in Ukraine is not a threat to Russians living in Ukraine. Quite the opposite – Russians in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea are actively undermining the government of Ukraine (No, the status of Russian as an official regional language, by the way, has not changed. Russia Today reported that it has, and to my knowledge has failed to note that the president of Ukraine never signed into law that act).

Well, it’s a full blown civil war now where thousands have been killed and injured, and the violence has greatly escalated this past month (NYT):

The United Nations said on Friday that casualties in the fighting between Ukrainian government forces and pro-Russian rebels had doubled in the past month, with an average of 36 people killed every day.

At least 1,200 people were killed and 3,250 injured in the period from July 16 to Aug. 17, according to a report released by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in Geneva. The office described the toll as “very conservative” and said it did not include the 298 passengers and crew who died when Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17.

“The trend is clear and alarming,” Ivan Simonovic, the United Nations assistant secretary general for human rights, said in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, according to Reuters. “There is a significant increase in the death toll in the east.”

But, I thought the government wasn’t a threat to ethnic Russians living in Eastern Ukraine? I guess it’s all Russia’s fault. And for interventionists who once used alleged government airstrikes against civilians to justify intervention in Libya, the same playing out in Ukraine gets no attention from those harboring a dangerous hypocrisy.

Let’s now examine the evidence of leftist failure with PW’s bullet point number 2:

2. The government is not dominated by neo-fascists, at least, not yet. Svoboda and Pravdiy Sektor are both still extreme minority parties, and the armed right wing is under heavy police pressure by the Ukrainian government. Indeed, the only party that has anything to gain from Pravdiy Sektor’s gaining power, and the only party acting to make that more likely, is Russia. Both Svoboda and Pravdiy Sektor have loudly opposed admission to the EU or the involvement of the IMF in Ukraine (interestingly, the exact same position toward Ukraine advocated by our local ‘progressive’ blogs), making it seem highly unlikely that they will continue to have Euro-American backing. Hard core nationalism in a multi-ethnic state like Ukraine can only lead to instability, the exact outcome Russia desires, and it can only be strengthened by the constant threat (and fact) of Russian intervention.

The reason I keep on going back to this post is because every time I re-read it, it appears more surreal. The coup government in Kiev continue to use neo-Nazis against Eastern Ukrainians because they actually fight. Yet somehow PW, back in April, was trying to twist their involvement as benefiting Russia—I guess because their undeniable role makes for a difficult PR problem for pro-interventionist like PW. Here’s Parry from Consortium News writing last month about Ignoring Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers:

The U.S.-backed Ukrainian government is knowingly sending neo-Nazi paramilitaries into eastern Ukrainian neighborhoods to attack ethnic Russians who are regarded by some of these storm troopers as “Untermenschen” or subhuman, according to Western press reports.

Recently, one eastern Ukrainian town, Marinka, fell to Ukraine’s Azov battalion as it waved the Wolfsangel flag, a symbol used by Adolf Hitler’s SS divisions in World War II. The Azov paramilitaries also attacked Donetsk, one of the remaining strongholds of ethnic Russians opposed to the Kiev regime that overthrew elected President Viktor Yanukovych last February.

Yet, despite this extraordinary reality – modern-day Nazi storm troopers slaughtering Slavic people in eastern Ukraine – the Obama administration continues to concentrate its criticism on Russia for sending a convoy of humanitarian supplies to the embattled region. Suddenly, the administration’s rhetoric about a “responsibility to protect” civilians has gone silent.

Like I said up thread, paramilitaries like this Azov battalion are willing to fight, which is not something that can be said for everyone tasked with killing their fellow countrymen. Here’s a post from b at Moon of Alabama describing heavy losses from the coup government in Kiev:

Throughout August the Ukrainian president and cabinet, likely following U.S. “advisers”, pushed their army into a big attack on the insurgency held south east areas of the country. But the attack of bad equipped, half trained units ran into problems. Some of them reached their attack targets only to find themselves cut off from any resupply. Without ammunition, gas and food they were locked into place and easy targets for the insurgents artillery.

The attack was stretched too far. The “culmination point in the attack” Clausewitz wrote about was reached and crossed. The negative effects of the attack on its own troops became bigger then the positive effects and the government in Kiev, not recognizing the real situation, still pressed on. It now lost the initiative. The parts of the Ukrainian army not surrounded and caught up surrounded in “cauldrons” retreated to be reorganized.

Some of the “volunteer” territorial battalions are simply going home. There is even a revolt against the defense ministry.

Read the whole post for full context. b has been fantastic in his coverage.

It would be nice if The Polish Wolf shared the perspective of the Ukrainians he’s in contact with. Are they happy going broke waging a civil war against those who would have a more federalized, autonomous position within the country? Will the paltry IMF bailout go to fund a continued military offensive? Who will fight if there are reports of soldiers refusing to fight? The Neo-Nazi groups? Oh, and winter is coming. Is Ukraine prepared?

So far Russia has avoided fully taking the bait. Even the Malaysian shoot down wasn’t enough, and now that bizarre investigation has almost all countries involved reportedly (Global Research, for what it’s worth) signing a non-disclosure agreement:

In the framework of the 4-country agreement signed on 8 August between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia, information on the progress and results of the investigation of the disaster will remain classified.

This was confirmed at a briefing in Kiev under the auspices of the office of the Prosecutor General Yuri Boychenko. In his words, the results of the investigation will be published once completed only if a consensus agreement of all parties that have signed the agreement prevails. (original emphasis in bold)

Hmmm, that’s a bit odd. Whatever could be the reason for imposing that kind of agreement? And why didn’t Malaysia sign on?

75 years ago today, on September 1st, Hitler invaded Poland, triggering World War II. It is total insanity that 75 five years later an American President is trying his damnedest to start World War III.


  1. JC

    New Strait Times, yesterday:

    “The [Dutch Safety] Board previously announced that it would release flight MH17’s preliminary report by early next month [september].

    However, results of the analysis of the two MH17 black boxes
    would only be included in the final report, which would be released next year. ”

    I guess the black boxes must really be incriminating against the Ukies, or they’d be dumping their contents all over the airwaves asap.

  2. As I read PW, he had an awakening of sorts and regarded Pogie as a mentor. Fair enough. Awakenings are good things and I hope many more follow. (I wish Pogie would have one.) He then dove into our complicated world with that as his armor. The problem is that the world according to Pogie can only take you so far, into partisan politics and not real world affairs.

    At that point PW had a choice, to grow or withdraw. I hope he returns, like all of us more weathered and world wise. It is always a mistake to assume we know anything, much less enough.

  3. Steve W

    a non-disclosure agreement? Ha ha ha that’s rich!

  4. steve kelly

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/ Good discussion at Saker.

  5. Was it mark Twain who said “History does not repeat itself but it rhymes”.

    • steve kelly

      Are you referring to the ongoing policy of turning soverign, gas and oil-producing nation-states into vassal colonies?

      • Actually I was compiling parallels between Neville Chamberlain and the current King Putt.

        • steve kelly

          Is your point that they are working for the same bosses? Or, do you believe these two are the top of the policy/practice pyramid?

          • There time is over.

            Meet the New apex of the pyramid below.*

        • Chamberlain represented a faction in Great Britain and America, which included Brown Harriman (think Bush) that wanted to see Germany empowered with new territories and resources, object: Barbarossa. It was decided by real power that the world would be allowed to view him as a capitulator.

  6. *

    • Once again, by reflex, your head is up the arse of electoral politics.

      • She’s your gal Mark.

        “We’re going to take things away from you for the common good.”-Hillary Clinton

        • She is nothing of the kind. She is an actor on a stage. She is running for an office that has all kinds of perks, but no real power. It is an ideal spot for a narcissist.

          Her words are like snowfall, lading softly, having no impact, but making it difficult to see what lies underneath.

          If you are so easily captured by words of public figures, I suggest you go back to school. That’s not where the real action is.

          • Snowflakes turn into avalanches every year killing hundreds. Killed one my best friends in Canada.

            Even Beck admits it. She’s preordained.

            • Ti an office that has no power! So effing what?

              • Not what you said about Bush. Is it only Dems that are powerless?

              • Bush was obviously a tool. Everyone could see that. Democrats think when their people are in the the tooliness magically ends. (“Plays chess, not checkers.”)

  7. Eric

    “75 Years Later, Could Ukraine Be WWIII’s Poland?”

    That’s a provoking question.

    First, there won’t be a WWIII for a while – Neither the President, or the majority of Americans have the stomach for it right now.

    Americans are getting numbed enough that if Obama declared himself dictator, and cancelled further elections, that about 1/2 of Americans would look at each other, nod, and go along with it.

    Second, I believe the Russians could and might slaughter thousands of civilians in Ukraine – with nothing but economic sanctions from the rest of the world.

    • And I believe in Santa Claus. So, are you similarly predicting a Super Bowl win for your Raiders, Eric?

      • Eric

        I’d be ecstatic at 8-8

    • JC

      You realize that WWII in Eurasia started without any impetus from the U.S., right?

    • Where do these ideas, like Russians being malevolent warmongers, originate?

      Oh yeah, that’s US MSM, Fox to NPR doing that, all speaking with one voice.

  8. Eric

    ” Where do these ideas, like Russians being malevolent warmongers, originate? ”

    I’m sure it has nothing to do with the former Soviets taking back Crimea, or sending tanks & troops into the Ukraine.

    • JC

      Do you remember that the Soviet Union lost 20 million lives winning WWII for Eurasia? No, didn’t think so.

      Do you remember that Prescott Bush & Co. helped Hitler and the Nazi’s build up for WWII? No, didn’t think so.

      Keep up the delusions, Coobs.

      And keep getting your news from the propagandists. This country needs people like you to keep the military-industrial complex feeding frenzy going.

    • Eric, you have strong opinions. Beyond that, you got nuthin’.

      Crimea is traditionally a Russian province, given over to Ukraine by Khrushchev for reasons I do not understand. When the putsch government seized power in Ukraine, Crimea willingly entered the Federation. The vote was overwhelming, a remarkable expression of popular will. Also, unlike American elections, the vote tally is reliably counted and is reliably valid.

      There’s no evidence of Russian troops or tanks in Ukraine. If you saw it in TV and therefore think it ‘s real, you’re being diddled by MSM.

      Joint the rest of the US, I guess. This place crawls with lies and lying liars.

  9. Eric

    Well JC, it’s sure nice to know that Russia did not take back Crimea, and that their troops and tanks aren’t anywhere near Ukraine – LOL

    • JC

      You do realize that the Soviets liberated Sevastopol from the Nazis in 1944? And have had a base there ever since? Actually, the first Russian naval base in Sevastopol was founded in 1783.

      So yeah, The Soviets (“Russia”) took back Crimea from the Nazis… and history repeats itself. But you would only know that if you understood Eurasian history in the first place.

      • It’s pointless, JC. Eric is informed my MSM, comfortably surrounded by fools who think like him, and quite unwilling to ever stretch his boundaries. He’s beyond reach.

        • Eric

          Damn that CBS News – cooking up this whole thing ! Are you sure you can’t blame it on Pres. Bush ?

          http://www.cbsnews.com/news/significant-escalation-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine/

          • JC

            Here, go read what the “Steering Group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity” (this letter was signed by 8 former and retired U.S. Intelligence Analysts) had to say about the disinformation campaign, in a warning letter to Merkel.

            http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/01/warning-merkel-on-russian-invasion-intel/

            Then come back and we can have the discussion about the crap that CBS News is feeding you. Or you can keep parroting the propaganda that is being spoon fed to you and the rest of the American public, and we can keep laughing at you. Your choice.

            • It was on TV. IT’s real.

            • Steve W

              Eric the clueless.

        • To be fair though, he’s also cooperative, helping me make my point.




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