19th Century Pretexts in Ukraine
March 2, 2014 in John Kerry, Ukraine
By JC
“You don’t just, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext.”
— U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry speaking on CBS program Face the Nation.
Open thread for the goings on in Ukraine. Anyone curious enough?
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March 2, 2014 at 2:27 pm
I posted this over at Mark’s site before he took it down.
“After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama’s reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence – the kind of response that would only encourage Russia’s Putin to invade Ukraine next.” Sarah Palin, Reno, Nevada on October 21, 2008.
March 3, 2014 at 12:17 am
I wonder who wrote that line for her, and did they write it on her hand for her or did she do the transcription herself?
Her opinion was delivered at about the same time it also emerged she could not name the nations involved in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) even though there are only three – the United States, Canada and Mexico – and the agreement had come up in the campaign. According to Carl Cameron of Fox News, aides said she had “real problems with basic civics” such as the different responsibilities of municipal, state and federal government.
March 3, 2014 at 10:14 am
Biden penned it for her.
March 2, 2014 at 2:45 pm
I shudder every time I think of the choices we supposedy had in 2004 between dumb and dumber. I remember in 2004 when the Democrats tried to spin the idea that Kerry was really smart but dull. Ha. Ha. Ha. He does not think for himself, but like many of his kind engages in group think.
March 2, 2014 at 2:55 pm
I think Secretary of State was Kerry’s payoff for being the Dem’s sacrificial lamb in 2004. What a doofus. What did he think our invasion of Iraq in 2003 was, if not “trumped-up pretext?”
And this man is the face of our country to the rest of the world? What a sham.
March 2, 2014 at 2:47 pm
Oh, and interesting take on Ukraine on Dimitry Orlov’s site. http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2014/03/reichstag-fire-in-kiev.html#more
And I like his definition of fascism as “militarized bigotry”.
March 2, 2014 at 5:50 pm
To secure “peace for our time” all we need is another Munich agreement giving the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine to Putin. Hell, if it worked once before with Hitler, why not now?
March 2, 2014 at 6:14 pm
Kerry’s now infamous quote, “This is not Rocky IV”.
March 2, 2014 at 11:29 pm
b @ MoA is looking at what may have provoked Russia’s reaction—er, sorry, INVASION!!!
I’m also noticing how many pundit shills ensure the provocation that led Russia’s last INVASION!!! goes conveniently unmentioned. it was Georgia poking the bear with an attack on South Ossetia, by the way. here’s some evidence, thanks to wikileaks:
March 3, 2014 at 12:01 am
Ironic!
Kerry joined the Republicans (all but Lincoln Chaffee) voted to authorize Bush’s illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq in October 2002. In August 2004, when running for president, he reiterated his support for his vote, two years earlier.
March 3, 2014 at 12:45 am
CNN’s Farah Zarkaria had three guests on this morning who actually knew something about the Ukraine and could discuss it intelligently, though they didn’t agree with each other. One was Clinton’s Secretary of State Madeline Albright, who infamously and unfortunately said that the deaths of half a million children thanks to the sanctions in Iraq “…was worth it.” She was joined by Zibgniew Brezinsky , Carter’s National Security Advisor, who pushed the policy that armed the mujahideen against the Russians. The last was Russian/Soviet expert Stephen Cohen, who was the best informed of the three, and who talked about the element of fascism that escalated the peaceful protests in Kiev to violence.
Like the rest of us, none of them have a history of being right all the time, but they were making an effort to sort through the complexity.
This is not a situation that will be resolved by simple solutions and is immensely worrying. But I’ve seen crackpots like Brookings/Soros scholar Fiona Hill (who asserted that the claim the Iraq invasion and occupation was provoked by a scheme to control that country’s oil reserves was “frankly ridiculous”) who on PBS had nothing useful to say, and many far worse than her being touted as serious pundits, who haven’t the faintest notion of what they’re talking about.
Obama, after speaking to Putin for 90 minutes, put his foot in his mouth by making statements that could not but help to exacerbate the conflict.
March 3, 2014 at 10:21 am
Should’ve asked Zigbniew how come 4 years into the Carter’s presidency we get Russia’s invasion of Afgannie and now 5 years into the Obama reign we get another invasion?
Anything to do with the overall strength of our leaders?
Maybe?
March 3, 2014 at 1:34 pm
You actually shouldn’t have asked. We had nothing to do with the Soviet’s (not “Russia’s”) invasion of Afghanistan which occurred 2 1/2 years into Carter’s term (not “4 years,” of course, especially since he only served 4 years), and Obama had little or nothing to do with Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine, the Victoria Nulan conversation notwithstanding.
Not maybe. Stop stretching.
March 4, 2014 at 6:51 am
Say what you will about the Russians — they always helpfully remind us when we elect a retard president.
March 4, 2014 at 6:57 am
There you go. Bringing up GWB again.
March 4, 2014 at 12:37 pm
“If you like your sovereign nation you can kept your sovereign nation.”
“Period.”-BO
March 4, 2014 at 3:32 pm
On July 14, 2003, at a White House press conference with Bush, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan diplomatically declined to contradict him. At that time, the Bush administration was reeling from the impact of former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s Op-Ed essay about the Niger uranium fiasco in the New York Times, which had appeared a few days earlier.
Asked by a naive reporter about the questionable intelligence on Iraq that had distorted his speeches and decisions, the president bristled. He clearly believed such questions impertinent and unimportant. He preferred to talk about the big picture. In his concluding remarks that afternoon, Bush said: “The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region. I firmly believe the decisions we made will make America more secure and the world more peaceful.”
As the Washington Post noted the following day, “the president’s assertion that the war began because Iraq did not admit inspectors appeared to contradict the events leading up to war this spring: Hussein had, in fact, admitted the inspectors and Bush had opposed extending their work because he did not believe them effective.” The Post was putting it rather blandly. The POTUS had denied reality, and the press corps blinked. The New York Times didn’t even report his bizarre statement, and the rest of the media followed along meekly.
March 3, 2014 at 1:30 am
Russia has no legal right to separate Crimea from Ukraine, just as they had no legal right to separate Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia. But Kosovo certainly sets a precedent – if the people living in Crimea vote for independence, the situation is very similar to that in Kosovo, which the international community generally approved.
If Russia does do so, however, they are essentially admitting they’ve lost the bigger war – they lose both their military sway in Ukraine (the Sevastapol base) and a substantial portion of their ethnic sway as well, and so their chances for a closer relationship with the rest of Ukraine are greatly diminished in exchange for a peninsula they essentially control already. Moreover, they will be providing an excellent justification for the remainder of the Ukrainian state to seek NATO membership – after all, nothing like this happens to the Baltic states, and the reason isn’t hard to see. Russia may choose to ‘back down’ in hopes of eventually using their base in Crimea to pull all of Ukraine back to the fold.
And I do think it’s somewhat relevant to ask why there are so many Russians in Crimea, and to realize that it’s the result of a concerted ethnic cleansing that took place after the War. I don’t think that invalidates the claims of Russians living there now, but it puts them in perspective.
March 3, 2014 at 12:57 pm
The reason there are so many Russians in Crimea is a matter of history. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/mar/02/mike-rogers/why-crimea-matters-russia/
March 3, 2014 at 1:07 pm
Did you see that date, 1944? A third of a million Tartars deported. Crimea has historically taken every opportunity to break away from Russia until the exile of the Tartar population. Only after that was the Crimean population loyal to Russia – because the original population was deported.
March 3, 2014 at 4:52 pm
How many Poles does it take to change a population count?
March 3, 2014 at 1:06 pm
If Russia backs down it will be for economic reasons. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-03/forget-sanctions-dot-what-could-really-hurt-putin-is-investor-backlash
March 3, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Crimea is 58% ethnic Russian, 24% Ukrainian, 10-12% Tatar.
Stalin kicked the Tatars out in ’44 because they were collaborating with the Nazis. He was not a nice man.
He sent them to Siberia and to the Republics such as Kazakhstan.
Most remained out for decades but eventually returned to their homeland. They speak Russian. They are Muslim.